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A list of recent hostile moves by Google's Chrome team

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Re: A list of recent hostile moves by Google's Chrome team

#161

Post by fnordpiglet »

mrtksn wrote: post #57

Remember the "Safari is the new IE" narrative? Just because Safari doesn't support some API doesn't make it IE, IE wasn't an inferior browser at the beginning either. What made IE the IE everyone hates was its departure from standards(?) and enforcing its own vision of the web thanks to its enormous market share. On IE's case, MS probably stagnated it to prevent competition against its desktop Apps business and on Go…

IE was terrible at first. It wasn’t until Netscape started proposing dynamic HTML and making a play to take over the desktop experience that Microsoft threw itself behind making a better browser, bundling it with the operating system, and giving it away for free (Netscape was free for end users but required commercial licensing). The only point of IE was to kill Netscape, and it did. Netscape got the last laugh by open sourcing the browser, which is todays Mozilla Firefox. Mozilla was the Netscape mascot FWIW. Mission accomplished Microsoft pivoted to destroying other innovative companies and let IE languish until it was replaced by the malware browser Edge as a competitor to the malware adware browser Chrome. Fortunately Firefox, Safari, Brave, opera continue to exist.

Re: A list of recent hostile moves by Google's Chrome team

#162

Post by Octabrain »

sneak wrote: post #124
kramerger wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People have all kinds of weird excuses for not using Firefox. Sometimes it feels like "Sure, Chrome sold my kids data to human traffickers. But I can't switch to Firefox because I really _need_ MIDI-2 over websocket support" Sure, FF is not perfect but a lot of issues is due to sites being optimised for webkit and that will not change as long as Chrome has 80% marketshare. You need to sacrifice a little for freedom.

Chrome is a lot more robust and secure against exploitation than Firefox is. This is a very unpopular fact, and every time I point it out the rabid Mozilla people get upset, despite it being the truth. I use Ungoogled Chromium.

Mmmm is there any source or a deep analysis from you for such a statement?

Re: A list of recent hostile moves by Google's Chrome team

#163

Post by rcMgD2BwE72F »

sph wrote: post #142

What is the excuse of all people reading this thread in agreement and still using Chrome? As I mentioned elsewhere, this is preaching to the choir. A choir of Chrome users. Google wouldn't be so dominant if tech people like us would stop making lazy excuses to continue its hegemony. In Dante's Divina Commedia , there is a circle of hell for those too lazy to take a stance [1]. If it were written today, it would inclu…

Many of my work tools require a browser extension that's only compatible with Chrome. The publishers don't plan to support Firefox or any other browser.

I can do without these tools (not an easy task) but not my coworkers.

Re: A list of recent hostile moves by Google's Chrome team

#164

Post by bryanrasmussen »

tommiegannert wrote: post #64
mrtksn wrote: post #57

Remember the "Safari is the new IE" narrative? Just because Safari doesn't support some API doesn't make it IE, IE wasn't an inferior browser at the beginning either. What made IE the IE everyone hates was its departure from standards(?) and enforcing its own vision of the web thanks to its enormous market share. On IE's case, MS probably stagnated it to prevent competition against its desktop Apps business and on Go…

IE was absolutely hated for not evolving. I'm curious what "its own vision" was, other than "do as little as possible, while Mozilla and Opera keeps pushing forward." Now, this is from the perspective of the web developer. I don't think IE was ever hated the same way from the end-user perspective. Chrome is still innovating, but now end-users hate it, because it's trying to be too much. The "new IE" hat still belongs…

>IE was absolutely hated for not evolving. I'm curious what "its own vision" was, other than "do as little as possible, while Mozilla and Opera keeps pushing forward."

IE6 was the best for a long time, also it had

VML which it kept in place and didn't move on SVG for a looooonnnnnngggg time, because of course VML was integrated in office products as the vector markup format and probably because it was made in MS.

So they had a vision for a vector image markup, and that was what they did.

SMIL-like extensions to HTML, and the use of behaviors in css were also part of their "vision" https://www.jb51.net/shouce/dhtml/time2/time.html

visions, like ideas, are a dime a dozen - in a browser market it matters if your visions are standards because if not they break the web.

IE's visions were not standardized and not supported by other browsers, they tried to instead do an end run around standardization. Chrome is the new IE. Chrome removing JPEG XL seems a pretty good indicator of that.

Also Safari had advanced color profiles before the other browsers, Safari does better work on accessibility than the other browsers, if most web developers thinks Safari is the new IE and Chrome is great then I think they aren't paying more than superficial attention to things.

Re: A list of recent hostile moves by Google's Chrome team

#165

Post by bryanrasmussen »

phpnode wrote: post #122
tommiegannert wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IE was absolutely hated for not evolving. I'm curious what "its own vision" was, other than "do as little as possible, while Mozilla and Opera keeps pushing forward." Now, this is from the perspective of the web developer. I don't think IE was ever hated the same way from the end-user perspective. Chrome is still innovating, but now end-users hate it, because it's trying to be too much. The "new IE" hat still belongs…

Microsoft actually laid off most of their IE developers after IE6 if I recall correctly, they had no vision for the future, it was finished, they'd won (for a while)

I'm pretty sure they just moved them to new teams, since it was understood they had put their best on making IE win it would be insane to lay them off afterwards.

Re: A list of recent hostile moves by Google's Chrome team

#166

Post by onurcel »

maxbond wrote: post #24
toxik wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

/More/ popovers and popups? What about just making the site slower?

If you're going to do something in protest, people have to know that you're protesting and that you want them to take an action in support of it. And if you degrade their service, they won't blame Chrome, they'll blame you.

For popups I blame the website developer, I read these as "let me give you a small annoyance to push a personal opinion" => ctrl+w

Re: A list of recent hostile moves by Google's Chrome team

#167

Post by dsissitka »

tgv wrote: post #55
dbish wrote: post #3

The problem is there are almost 0 alternatives beyond Firefox so if you don’t like their UX you’re stuck. All the “new” browsers are just chromium skins (edge, arc, etc.) Are there any real competitors building a new browser?

What would you think the problem with Firefox' UX that keeps so many people from switching is? I think it's not UX, but pure marketing.

I'm a Firefox user but there have been plenty for me over the years.

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18117216

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23442618

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33014968

These days the big ones for me are profile switching and the things leaked between containers.

Re: A list of recent hostile moves by Google's Chrome team

#168

Post by toastal »

reilnin wrote: post #155
nathan_phoenix wrote: post #47

Expected a huge list and there's only 3 items there, and one of them, JPEG XL, is kinda moot because it didn't seem viable until recently after Safari started supporting it... Feel that the list could have had much more substance with the addition of webUSB, webSerial and such features which Chrome just strong armed. In the current form the list and toot don't really drive the point home...

WebUSB is pretty useful though, I know people who've used it to control all sorts of devices in an easily accessible way. Google themselves use it for updating Android devices, via making an ADB connection from their update webpage. I don't see how it could be classified as hostile, as it's adding a feature rather than taking features away.

I’ve seen keyboards that allow firmware upgrades & configuration over WebUSB. This covers not just Linux but even smaller OSs as well as the audience using Android tablets as a PC or whatever.

Re: A list of recent hostile moves by Google's Chrome team

#169

Post by chpatrick »

mrtksn wrote: post #57

Remember the "Safari is the new IE" narrative? Just because Safari doesn't support some API doesn't make it IE, IE wasn't an inferior browser at the beginning either. What made IE the IE everyone hates was its departure from standards(?) and enforcing its own vision of the web thanks to its enormous market share. On IE's case, MS probably stagnated it to prevent competition against its desktop Apps business and on Go…

IE6 was hated for being the only popular browser where standard features didn't work, or worked differently. It's the exact same situation with Safari now.

Re: A list of recent hostile moves by Google's Chrome team

#170

Post by frameset »

tibanne wrote: post #157
sph wrote: post #142

What is the excuse of all people reading this thread in agreement and still using Chrome? As I mentioned elsewhere, this is preaching to the choir. A choir of Chrome users. Google wouldn't be so dominant if tech people like us would stop making lazy excuses to continue its hegemony. In Dante's Divina Commedia , there is a circle of hell for those too lazy to take a stance [1]. If it were written today, it would inclu…

[flagged]

Because you're a frog boiling in a pot. The URL we're discussing has a list of coming changes to weaken uBlock and other privacy or content blocking features.
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