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Google’s Plan to DRM the Web Goes Against Everything Google Once Stood For

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Re: Google’s Plan to DRM the Web Goes Against Everything Google Once Stood For

#131

Post by drpixie »

cowl wrote: post #92

It seems Everyone is taking for granted the claim that this is about DRM. The claim is that websites (not Google) will use this signal to allow or deny access but this is already possible with various means. Google or any other Browser vendor do not have a say on how websites use or misuse features. > There is a tension between utility for anti-fraud use cases requiring deterministic verdicts and high coverage, and t…

> Google or any other Browser vendor do not have a say on how websites use or misuse features.

Seriously? Would you give the kiddies sharp knives and loaded guns, and then be shocked when someone is injured?

If we let this become available, we will all have to live with the consequences. We can see clearly what those consequences will be. Let's not be stupid.

Re: Google’s Plan to DRM the Web Goes Against Everything Google Once Stood For

#132

Post by redbell »

Is this the same company that, in its childhood, had the tagline: "Don't be evil"? [1]

The beginning of the article summarizes why Google is no longer committed to its original motto, and It's sad to see such a dramatic change in the culture of the company.

> first, they are good to their users; then they abuse their users to make things better for their business customers; finally, they abuse those business customers to claw back all the value for themselves.

______________________

1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Don't_be_evil

Re: Google’s Plan to DRM the Web Goes Against Everything Google Once Stood For

#133

Post by choeger »

cowl wrote: post #115
choeger wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> what does Google have to do with how websites choose to treat their users or what solution they would propose Google owns YouTube. Is it so hard to imagine that some product manager at YouTube counted the losses due to adblockers and asked a team in Chrome to prevent them?

Youtube can and in some measure is already doing it without this new API. If google wanted to be sneaky they can provide whatever data they want to Youtube alone without making it a public standard. you see how all of these fears are contorted reasoning because you want to try to find something wrong with the proposal because all fo your fears do not require this proposals and would be easier and with much less backl…

Yeah right. "Don't worry, the leash you'll be wearing is a public standard.".

You're either paid or delusional.

Re: Google’s Plan to DRM the Web Goes Against Everything Google Once Stood For

#134

Post by worrycue »

tgv wrote: post #87
worrycue wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s not how I remembered it. Chrome really was a good browser and I would argue is still a good browser (for now). IE got displaced by Firefox’s predecessors because MS got caught napping - they disbanded the IE team thinking they have won. Firefox simply got outcompeted by Chrome as Google went crazy making it faster and faster. Firefox fell behind often enough that Chrome managed to take almost all of its market…

I think it was clear when they started with Google docs that they were using their browser to get market domination. They offered a free product that people liked, but almost forced them to switch to Chrome. They got entire nations to switch their education tooling to chrome and google docs. Now they keep adding features that enable bad developers to create websites that don't work properly in Firefox and Safari. The…

Google’s web products have always worked with Firefox to my knowledge. Maybe they run a bit faster on Chrome but I don’t recall them ever being broken on Firefox. Perhaps I’m wrong. Can you cite incidents of Google’s stuff not working right on Firefox (or Safari even). Also which features enable developers to create sites that don’t work in Firefox and Safari? (I really don’t know. I’m not a web developer.)

Re: Google’s Plan to DRM the Web Goes Against Everything Google Once Stood For

#135

Post by avereveard »

google never stood for anything, do no evil was mostly marketing.

2010s

https://nakedsecurity.sophos.com/2011/08/26/real-canadian-ph...

"we don't collet private data" https://europe.googleblog.com/2010/04/data-collected-by-goog...

"ops we do" https://googleblog.blogspot.com/2010/05/wifi-data-collection...

google wage fixing, all the way back from 2001 https://www.cnet.com/tech/tech-industry/apple-google-seek-ap...

before that it's harder to search data, but you get the idea.

Re: Google’s Plan to DRM the Web Goes Against Everything Google Once Stood For

#136

Post by bob1029 »

m_rpn wrote: post #125
bob1029 wrote: post #104

Back when I was working at Samsung, I had a manager who was absolutely convinced that google is an intelligence/CIA operation. At the time, I found it to be a mockable suggestion, and never really thought much beyond it. Seemed like harmless IT/nerd banter back then. About a decade later I started to reflect on what he said and began feel like I might have been working with a time traveler or other inside person. It…

It is safe to assume that every big internet/data/telco company from big nation states has some kind of relationship with national intelligence agencies, dating back from the 60s at least, if we just talk about the modern information age. Nothing strange or mind blowing really, for example Crypto AG, a famous swiss crypto vendor was secretly a joint USA-Germany operation from the 70s onward.

Oh I absolutely agree wrt internet/telecom/utah datacenter panopticon/etc.

For me the nuance is in the origins and ongoing leadership and effects on the consumer experience. The "Killed by google" phenomenon paints a darker picture in my mind. I start to read each google product as a folder in a CIA Sharepoint system - Only to be kept around until it is no longer valuable to the agency. Each with some sort of ulterior mission that seems ever-narrower in scope.

Re: Google’s Plan to DRM the Web Goes Against Everything Google Once Stood For

#137

Post by nicoco »

barrotes wrote: post #120
stjohnswarts wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Options are Linux, and half broken "phone" or Apple, the hardware is their profit center, as well as getting you to buy their software product, but your info isn't sold to 3rd parties (yet?) or Google (circumvent some of it with firefox+adblock origin) or just don't participate at all and get a flip burner.

Why 'half broken "phone"'? I used GrapheneOS for a while now, it works pretty well imho, the only problem I encountered till now is with maps. Finding a good and no-play-services maps app is a major issue. I use OsmAnd and it's quite mediocre compared to Play Services based options. With that (important) exception, I love the de-googled experience. The funny part is that to be de-googled the best choice is buying...…

Try organic maps.

Re: Google’s Plan to DRM the Web Goes Against Everything Google Once Stood For

#138

Post by offices »

saagarjha wrote: post #2

Google used to be cool and now it’s not. Wonder which companies of today will end up completing the cycle tomorrow?

Are there any cool companies left? I think consumers and employees have become more cynical.

    - OpenAI is already 'evil'.
    - Apple has staying power but I still wouldn't consider it cool anymore.
    - Likewise Tesla.

Re: Google’s Plan to DRM the Web Goes Against Everything Google Once Stood For

#139

Post by dns_snek »

cowl wrote: post #92

It seems Everyone is taking for granted the claim that this is about DRM. The claim is that websites (not Google) will use this signal to allow or deny access but this is already possible with various means. Google or any other Browser vendor do not have a say on how websites use or misuse features. > There is a tension between utility for anti-fraud use cases requiring deterministic verdicts and high coverage, and t…

> It seems Everyone is taking for granted the claim that this is about DRM. The claim is that websites (not Google) will use this signal to allow or deny access but this is already possible with various means.

How about you offer a reasonable opposing viewpoint? It's hard to see this, at best, as anything other than an extremely naive viewpoint. Every feature that can be used to lock down content and/or spy on users, will be used to do just that. That's true for every single feature that exists today. Claiming otherwise borders on bad faith.

> Google or any other Browser vendor do not have a say on how websites use or misuse features.

That's settled then. Full filesystem, location, camera, and microphone access should therefore come on by default without a permission dialog. Why not bring back Java and Flash while we're at it! It's not the browser vendor's fault that websites are misusing it.

> Many articles are just reapeating the "DRM" claim without explaining how is this different

This is different because any meaningful "attestation about the environment the browser is running in" can only be achieved via a full chain of trust, starting with secure boot, which will allow Google (and websites you visit) to verify that your system is using a Google-approved bootloader to load a Google-approved operating system which only loads Google-approved drivers and Google-approved software (or worse, website-approved software).

Re: Google’s Plan to DRM the Web Goes Against Everything Google Once Stood For

#140

Post by mg »

tannhaeuser wrote: post #107
mg wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Google was made possible by a platform shift: From desktop apps to websites. First they positioned themselves very early in the web user experience: After the user turned on their Dell computer, booted Windows and started Internet Explorer, the next step was to use Google. Then they moved one step closer to the user by building their own browser: Chrome Then they moved even closer to the user by building their own OS…

Google was made possible by US antitrust turning a blind eye towards Google's acquisition of DoubleClick and YouTube. Considering Alphabet is dominating both search and ads and also offers services via searches, the EU commission already hinted at a breakup as a viable measure to lead the web out of its misery. [1]: https://ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/detail/en/ip_23_...

Google's market cap was already at over $100B with billions in revenue and hundreds of millions in profits when it bought DoubleClick and YouTube.

So while those were big aquisitions (Around $3B and $2B) they only accelerated the process of Google turning into the web's central player. It was already set in motion before the aquisitions.

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