Alcohol without the hangover – scientists are finding ways • Hacker News Board

Re: Alcohol without the hangover – scientists are finding ways

#241

Post by tsol » Sun, Jul 30, 2023, 6:10 AM UTC

01100011 wrote: post #196

There are many other alcohols, 2M2B( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tert-Amyl_alcohol ) for example, which are "alcohol without the hangover" in a sense. I seem to remember a scientist looking into ways to deliver these alcohols(absorbed in cellulose IIRC). You'll note that these chemicals, like alcohol, can also lead to overdoses and since they are much more potent it is even more difficult to ensure one does not ove…

I've always been fascinated by these trace alcohols. They are very rarely talked about. Some people will say 'alcohol is alcohol' but that's actually incorrect. Alcoholic drinks are bioactive concoctions made of organic materials with multiple active ingredients-- the hops in beer for example has a slight effect on cannabinoid receptors which is why beer tend to makes one sleepy. Like you said there are a lot of trace alcohols as well. People report having different effects from different alcohols-- vodka can be numbing while wine feels more relaxed, etc.

By categorizing an inventory of these trace alcohols and their effects, one could hypothetically create customized alcohols with varying effects and levels of metabolic load. These trace alcohols are also called fusel alcohols. A lot of these are very weird chemicals with varying effects, though, not all positive. Propan-1-ol is a fusel alcohol that is thought to be 2-4 times stronger that alcohol and similar in effects, but can lead to high anion gap metabolic acidosis as a lethal side effect. So there are likely safe maximum levels of each fusel alcohol that can actually be added. Fusel alcohols are something brewers take great care to avoid, after all, as they can cause many negative effects. There's something interesting there and I'm surprised no one has pursued this before(AFAIK)

Re: Alcohol without the hangover – scientists are finding ways

#242

Post by listenallyall » Sun, Jul 30, 2023, 6:14 AM UTC

serf wrote: post #222

ramraj07 wrote: post #216

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I hope you can see that your friends are alcoholics. Drinking 18 of any alcoholic drink shouldn't be considered normal as much as the surroundings might indicate otherwise.

it's not normal in the base-line average manner of speech, but it's common. 17 percent of American men have binge-drank in their past year.[0] another point : a single anecdote about someone binge drinking is by no means the single qualified indicator for alcoholism. alcoholism is a specific set of mental and physical traits which all orbit the most common traits of uncontrollability and preoccupation/addiction. a si…

Dude, that link defines binge drinking as approximately 5 drinks... the guy's buddies were drinking 18 each. Many of your 17% might "binge drink" once or twice a year... his buddies "normally" split 36.

I'm not about to label anyone or anything, but your reference here certainly doesn't disprove ramraj07's argument, nor does it support your claim that 18 beers a night is "common."

Re: Alcohol without the hangover – scientists are finding ways

#243

Post by seer » Sun, Jul 30, 2023, 6:27 AM UTC

thesz wrote: post #151

mvkel wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Elite endurance athlete here. I definitely experience hangovers on the rare occasion that I drink. That said, was just on a cycling trip where one of the riders drank two bottles of wine to himself and was flying the next day. Might it be something about high vo2, not just "being an endurance athlete"?

I don't know. The guy I was talking about was Master of Sports (Russian) in skiing. It requires being at least 40th at the nation level. i have other anecdotes that supports theory that endurance training helps with alcohol metabolism.

Genes definitely play a role. I have some russian genes in me and up till the age of 30 I could drink at least twice the amount of alcohol than all of my bulgarian friends. And Bulgaria has quite the drinking culture itself, so they were no slouches for sure.

More than that, the high school we were at had (still has?) a reputation for producing alcoholic software devs, so drinking culture was big even before legally allowed drinking age.

And with all that I still had to drink at least twice the amount of alcohol just to get to the same buzz level like everyone else. And next day I would experience none of the symptoms than all my friends reported, to their endless dismay.

I think the idea was that some people from russia have a gene for more efficiently processing alcohol in the liver, but whatever it was, after 30, I just became a regular joe drinking wise, which is quite nice since I don’t have to spend so much money if I want to have a buzz. Though I do a lot less of it now, as I also have a hangover the next day.

Re: Alcohol without the hangover – scientists are finding ways

#244

Post by solumunus » Sun, Jul 30, 2023, 6:52 AM UTC

clove wrote: post #209

AndyKelley wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

* spending the evening playing video games that I've already spent a ton of hours on and am not getting any kind of new experience out of anymore * hanging out at a bar and talking to intoxicated people * house parties In exchange, new things are fun: * skateboarding * learning Japanese * building an arcade cabinet in my basement (I'm a software developer, very little experience with wood working and other hardware s…

* skateboarding * learning Japanese * building an arcade cabinet in my basement (I'm a software developer, very little experience with wood working and other hardware stuff) * waking up in the morning and being excited for the day I don't know about building an arcade cabinet, but all of these other things are both more fun and more efficient with alcohol. All of the Japanese I have learnt has been due to alcohol. Yo…

Learning skateboarding is more efficient when you’re drunk? What absolute nonsense. This comment just reeks of trying to justify your own personal need for drinking. “Everything is easier when I’m drunk” is classic cope from someone who needs alcohol to get through life.

It reminds me of when all my friend and I used to smoke weed daily. “Everything is better when high, you may as well just always be high”. The reality is that when you break your addiction things become more enjoyable while sober. I used to not even watch a movie unless I was high because it didn’t interest me enough. Low and behold, when I was no longer addicted to weed movies became more interesting again.

Re: Alcohol without the hangover – scientists are finding ways

#245

Post by rodary » Sun, Jul 30, 2023, 6:57 AM UTC

thesz wrote: post #137

My personal trainer once told me that athletes that become alcoholics belong to either endurance sports of various kinds or to archer or pistol shooting. The shooting sportsmen use small amounts of alcohol to reduce tremor [1], and small amounts of alcohol became bigger with time. [1] https://www.jstage.jst.go.jp/article/jhe1972/14/2/14_2_99/_p... The situation in endurance sports is very different. Very elevated cou…

Former elite cyclist, Russian.

Can confirm, drinking in cycling circles at elite level is normal. Heavy drinking that is, even before races. Doesn't seem to have any effect on performance the next day.

Then again, we're talking 20-25 yo males with 10-15 years of endurance training.

Re: Alcohol without the hangover – scientists are finding ways

#246

Post by deafpolygon » Sun, Jul 30, 2023, 6:58 AM UTC

_yb2s wrote: post #165

klardotsh wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Alcohol and caffeine are the only two drugs I can think of (okay, in some circles maybe cannabis too) where the response to "I cut this thing out of my life" is often "why?" or "you know you could still do a little?" One exercise to illustrate the ridiculousness and disrespect of phrases like that is to replace "alcohol" with "crack". "I don't do crack anymore" would basically never be responded to with "you know, yo…

That’s an absurd comparison… crack is no where near as harmful as alcohol

> crack is no where immediately as harmful as alcohol

FTFY :P

Re: Alcohol without the hangover – scientists are finding ways

#247

Post by phaker » Sun, Jul 30, 2023, 7:09 AM UTC

balfirevic wrote: post #173

esquivalience wrote: post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is a complete-seeming list of ingredients on the product purchase page at https://sentiaspirits.com/products/sentia-red-50cl-black-50c... I was also annoyed by the FAQ.

Do you know which of those would be the psycho-active substance for the purported buzz effect?

Afaict other than water water, vitamins, preservatives, organic acids and glycerine the only common ingredient between the two is magnolia officinalis. Wikipedia mentions two psychoactive compounds in it with a matching mechanism:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnolia_officinalis

Re: Alcohol without the hangover – scientists are finding ways

#248

Post by symlinkk » Sun, Jul 30, 2023, 7:11 AM UTC

miduil wrote: post #109

I've been three+ years sober, really can recommend. Life is much different now, things that used to be fun aren't anymore - but I'm making strong connections nevertheless.

I have a couple drinks an night to unwind and I really enjoy it. And I go hard on the weekend when I want to.

Re: Alcohol without the hangover – scientists are finding ways

#249

Post by fragmede » Sun, Jul 30, 2023, 7:16 AM UTC

01100011 wrote: post #196

There are many other alcohols, 2M2B( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tert-Amyl_alcohol ) for example, which are "alcohol without the hangover" in a sense. I seem to remember a scientist looking into ways to deliver these alcohols(absorbed in cellulose IIRC). You'll note that these chemicals, like alcohol, can also lead to overdoses and since they are much more potent it is even more difficult to ensure one does not ove…

Outside of alcohol and that family, Vice.com tells me GHB and ketamine are similarly mind altering without the alcohol hangover.

https://www.vice.com/en/article/xw879j/ghb-explainer-club-dr...

https://www.vice.com/en/article/jg5ja7/sick-of-drinking-more...

Re: Alcohol without the hangover – scientists are finding ways

#250

Post by 4gotunameagain » Sun, Jul 30, 2023, 7:57 AM UTC

rodary wrote: post #245

thesz wrote: post #137

My personal trainer once told me that athletes that become alcoholics belong to either endurance sports of various kinds or to archer or pistol shooting. The shooting sportsmen use small amounts of alcohol to reduce tremor [1], and small amounts of alcohol became bigger with time. [1] https://www.jstage.jst.go.jp/article/jhe1972/14/2/14_2_99/_p... The situation in endurance sports is very different. Very elevated cou…

Former elite cyclist, Russian. Can confirm, drinking in cycling circles at elite level is normal. Heavy drinking that is, even before races. Doesn't seem to have any effect on performance the next day. Then again, we're talking 20-25 yo males with 10-15 years of endurance training.

well, it kinda seems that drinking in any circle in Russia is more normal than other countries. Maybe it doesn't seem to have an effect because the others are drunk too every time ?

Ι wonder what would the effect be if someone got drunk just once before a race.