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IRC is the only viable chat protocol (2022)

koshka.love

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Re: IRC is the only viable chat protocol (2022)

#291

Post by 418tpot »

Razengan wrote: post #61
tester756 wrote: post #16

Discord haters look, it is simple. Until Discord appeared we had Ventrilo, Mumble, TeamSpeak, Skype, etc, etc I've been using those for like 10 years almost everyday They had voice chat, some had viable text chat, etc, etc. And then Discord appeared which had: Voice Chat, Good text chat (images, code snippets, emojis, reactions, etc) Streaming Video (!!) File share Robust bot integration Lack of security problem unli…

I get what you're saying, I like Discord, but I wish there was an ecosystem of custom (less bloaty) apps to connect to Discord with, like IRC had.

Except it will never exist for discord because discord is a proprietary communication service instead of an open protocol. At best it can provide an API, but that can be broken or shut down on a whim. This is why it's a much better use of time for developers to make things like Matrix clients match feature parity to discord rather than attempt to give discord the client diversity of Matrix/IRC.

Re: IRC is the only viable chat protocol (2022)

#292

Post by johnea »

ginko wrote: post #8

> The reliability and lack of bloat that are inherent to IRC ultimately also means that there are a number of fancy modern features that Discord has that IRC lacks, a big one being the inability to view backlogs of conversations that transpired while one was not connected to an IRC server. Although IRC does not itself provide this functionality, the extremely simple nature of IRC allows for a couple of lightweight op…

The "standard" config of a leet IRC user is an always on "bouncer", that's then connected to by the user's IRC client.

This provides a really reliable chat framework in a totally open-standards compliant way.

Of course, most people don't care. This is why the corps business model of profit via surveilance is so successful. So, to jump straight to Godwin's Law: this is the same lack of concern, and passive cooperation, that led to the rise of hitler...

Re: IRC is the only viable chat protocol (2022)

#294

Post by Groxx »

tester756 wrote: post #16

Discord haters look, it is simple. Until Discord appeared we had Ventrilo, Mumble, TeamSpeak, Skype, etc, etc I've been using those for like 10 years almost everyday They had voice chat, some had viable text chat, etc, etc. And then Discord appeared which had: Voice Chat, Good text chat (images, code snippets, emojis, reactions, etc) Streaming Video (!!) File share Robust bot integration Lack of security problem unli…

Since you are a Push To Talk user, I'm honestly curious: how is it different from temporarily un-muting yourself? Like, how does it work better for you, or cause fewer problems, or something.

It's so popular in so many places that I assume I'm missing something obvious. I've always just hit a key to toggle mute though.

Re: IRC is the only viable chat protocol (2022)

#295

Post by magsarion »

rcxdude wrote: post #282
magsarion wrote: post #255

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The "threat model" of OP is the consequence of a wrong usage pattern. You keep your identities separate. If you're in a high-stakes environment where being DDoSed or attacked is an actual threat, you compartmentalize that identity adequately by going through a proxy, VPN, TOR, I2P, or using a different medium altogether. Fortunately, unlike other services, this is extremely easy with IRC since the identity is just a…

It's not a matter of one single identity. Whether you use one or multiple you have a real practical problem which does actually happen which is prevented by discord without the need for using a 3rd party tool or you have a selection of alternatives which don't. Giving discord your phone number (which theoretically could be a problem) is really not an issue by comparison (hint: while not exactly the paragon of virtue,…

> a real practical problem

It's not a real practical problem – and I'm not sure why we're pretending that it is one. Let's clearly state what the problem is: OP wants to play MMOs & online games against potential threat actors who may DDoS and/or doxx them. Which is why they simultaneously also want to shield their identity from them. An analogy would be somebody who wants to play games with the neighbourhood meth gang while not wanting to get stabbed.

This is not safe or reasonable behaviour. Even if these people lack a client IP, a motivated attacker can piece your identity together from what you say and/or post eventually. Discord just makes that a bit more difficult at the cost of you handing over PIID of greater importance.

Re: IRC is the only viable chat protocol (2022)

#296

Post by progval »

Karunamon wrote: post #271
magsarion wrote: post #184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[dead]

>An IRC client with some bells and & some plugins that expand web-linked media would offer most of Discord's feature set. And yet, this hypothetical client does not exist. Discord does.

IRCCloud and The Lounge do it natively. Maybe KiwiIRC too.

Re: IRC is the only viable chat protocol (2022)

#297

Post by siriusfeynman »

lolinder wrote: post #199
magsarion wrote: post #184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[dead]

You seem to have completely missed tester756's point: Discord became popular because it bundled good-enough versions of all of those features with no extra hassle. No one has to keep track of which client you're using in order to decide which features you can interact with, no one has to spin up a new server for voice chat or anything else—it's handled for you automatically. You might be comfortable stringing togethe…

so many conversation about discord/slack/$currentThing vs IRC end up repeating the "why Dropbox when you can rsync" meme

Re: IRC is the only viable chat protocol (2022)

#298

Post by yborg »

HeckFeck wrote: post #21

Was IRC ever used privately and internally within the workplace? I'd like to know if anyone did. I only ever used it briefly with forum communities and some older OSS projects. At work, it has only ever been Slack. Some older employees recall using Skype for Business.

It's funny, still actively working in the tech space I usually don't really feel my age, but topics like this remind me that I've been around a long time. At one point I think you would have found most large *ix-using organizations running internal IRC servers or even networks. When Slack first came out, it had a first-party IRC bridge, partly for this reason.

IRC is very much a first-generation distributed comm protocol, but by the time it was mature it had most of the capabilities of current systems, mostly provided by external services. As Jamie Zawinski once observed about email, team chat has a common set of functions that people will always want and any system used for that eventually implements all of them or is replaced; and if a system implements these functions better, it also replaces its predecessors. I mean, I'm old enough to have regularly used 'talk' at work, evolution is a good thing.

Re: IRC is the only viable chat protocol (2022)

#299

Post by rvz »

magsarion wrote: post #121
rvz wrote: post #66

That ship has sailed. IRC lost to Discord years ago. Don't care about it being closed source. IRC also lost to the Matrix protocol as not only that is much better, it is also just as competitive with Element and they are making money, meaning that they can afford to add more features. IRC is prehistoric ancient history. It's time to evolve and leave that protocol in the dust and go with modern alternatives like Matri…

[dead]

> The reality is, IRC will probably be still around after Discord and its successor have bitten the dust. The Lindy effect has been trustworthy so far.

You do realize that even if Discord dies, its users on there won't be going back to IRC? That is the point.

We have already seen the Matrix protocol being used in the tens of millions whilst IRC is in decline.

Re: IRC is the only viable chat protocol (2022)

#300

Post by yborg »

soldeace wrote: post #191

> Anyone who has ever used IRC knows that there is nothing even remotely complicated about using it, but the terminology and the steps required to use one are ostensibly terrifying enough to reliably keep the technically illiterate at bay. This remark, topped with the author's piece on "normiefication", is the kind of intellectual elitism that reliably keeps me away from IRC whenever I think of coming back to it.

This is a silly statement. The technology doesn't embody any 'elitism', back in the day there were many channels/networks with non-technical users. Back when Shoutcast was a thing, servers often had an associated IRC channel where people would make requests, or just talk music, just as one example. This also makes the "keep technically illiterate users away" statement silly, I've seen middle school age kids connect to IRC channels without any apparent difficulty.
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