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IRC is the only viable chat protocol (2022)

koshka.love

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Re: IRC is the only viable chat protocol (2022)

#181

Post by rcxdude »

magsarion wrote: post #173
tester756 wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Also lack of transparency. The self-hosted open alternatives are auditable and can be inspected. Nobody knows what Discord does with user data or what security issues exist. This doesnt solve (or doesnt even tries to solve) my issue AT ALL. I'd rather have Discord have some user data that I'm consciously putting there instead of my enemies from the game DDoSing/Stalking me I've played hardcore MMORPGs and this is se…

> I'd rather have Discord some user data that I'm consciously putting there instead of my enemies from the game DDoSing/Stalking me Security by obscurity is not a real solution. If you have a public IP connected to the internet, you will be subjected to attacks and port scans either way. Configure your network and firewall correctly and ensure no ports are open instead of trusting the false sense of security given by…

You don't understand the threat model of OP: it's not a case of "general internet port scanner getting into my network" it's a case of "guy I've pissed off in this video game DDossing my residential internet connection or using that information to dox me". For the latter no level of security on my own network is going to prevent the bad outcome, but effectively having a proxy through a 3rd party does (and discord does go to extra lengths to avoid webRTC from leaking IP info)

Re: IRC is the only viable chat protocol (2022)

#182

Post by Zetice »

salawat wrote: post #162
op00to wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IRC is an information black hole where data that crosses the event horizon (scrolls off screen) will never return. Sure, you can write your own logs, but does your business want you creating even more information to have to submit as evidence if you’re sued? What a nightmare.

...Don't do shit worth getting sued over?

Anyone can sue for anything, asking to not do things that create lawsuits is asking not to operate a business in the US.

Re: IRC is the only viable chat protocol (2022)

#183

Post by tester756 »

magsarion wrote: post #173
tester756 wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Also lack of transparency. The self-hosted open alternatives are auditable and can be inspected. Nobody knows what Discord does with user data or what security issues exist. This doesnt solve (or doesnt even tries to solve) my issue AT ALL. I'd rather have Discord have some user data that I'm consciously putting there instead of my enemies from the game DDoSing/Stalking me I've played hardcore MMORPGs and this is se…

> I'd rather have Discord some user data that I'm consciously putting there instead of my enemies from the game DDoSing/Stalking me Security by obscurity is not a real solution. If you have a public IP connected to the internet, you will be subjected to attacks and port scans either way. Configure your network and firewall correctly and ensure no ports are open instead of trusting the false sense of security given by…

>If you have a public IP connected to the internet, you will be subjected to attacks and port scans either way.

Yes, and somehow it magically happened this way that during decades of having access to internet we were being DDoSed only when targeted by ppl from the game that had access to our IPs from TeamSpeak/Ventrilo, right?

Because what incentives attacker would have to DDoS random IPs?

>Configure your network and firewall correctly and ensure no ports are open instead of trusting the false sense of security given by some proprietary vendor who has your data.

Again, put effort, time to manage firewalls and security solutions.

I'm not even sure if this would work this way.

They purchase $5 (or who knows how much nowadays) stressers and DDoS your IP, so even your ISP feels it and you lose internet access.

My friend's village had no internet access for X hours.

And all of that for actually what? solving issue which could be easily avoided?

Re: IRC is the only viable chat protocol (2022)

#184

Post by magsarion »

rcxdude wrote: post #159
magsarion wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Voice Chat Integrating a Jitsi bot into the channel solves this. > Good text chat (images, code snippets, emojis, reactions, etc) All possible with good old web linking. Link to an image host, a pastebin, or a file host of your choice. Many IRC clients support inline display of image/media URLs. All major IRC clients and servers support UTF-8 as well, so emoji away. > Streaming Video (!!) Jitsi (with a bot) or web…

So supplement IRC with a bunch of other services? Realising people didn't want to deal with this shit is why discord is so popular. (Seriously, this response and others like it demonstrate that IRC will continue to remain a niche. I won't fault you if this kind of setup works for you but suggesting this kind of thing is acceptable for the average user is really, truly, genuinely out of touch. I'm among the demographi…

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Re: IRC is the only viable chat protocol (2022)

#185

Post by tester756 »

rcxdude wrote: post #181
magsarion wrote: post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'd rather have Discord some user data that I'm consciously putting there instead of my enemies from the game DDoSing/Stalking me Security by obscurity is not a real solution. If you have a public IP connected to the internet, you will be subjected to attacks and port scans either way. Configure your network and firewall correctly and ensure no ports are open instead of trusting the false sense of security given by…

You don't understand the threat model of OP: it's not a case of "general internet port scanner getting into my network" it's a case of "guy I've pissed off in this video game DDossing my residential internet connection or using that information to dox me". For the latter no level of security on my own network is going to prevent the bad outcome, but effectively having a proxy through a 3rd party does (and discord doe…

Exactly.

Re: IRC is the only viable chat protocol (2022)

#186

Post by vq »

HeckFeck wrote: post #21

Was IRC ever used privately and internally within the workplace? I'd like to know if anyone did. I only ever used it briefly with forum communities and some older OSS projects. At work, it has only ever been Slack. Some older employees recall using Skype for Business.

Ericsson had an internal IRC server a long time ago.

Re: IRC is the only viable chat protocol (2022)

#187

Post by Filligree »

j45 wrote: post #130
ungamedplayer wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some people have higher expectations and needs than single word matching.

It’s amazing someone just doesn’t connect an existing open source search to it Oh wait they’re probably using nosql

At least they're large enough that that makes somewhat sense.

Re: IRC is the only viable chat protocol (2022)

#188

Post by scarygliders »

nologic01 wrote: post #171
scarygliders wrote: post #78

I've been on IRC since the 90's and was an Op for Undernet #Linux & #Japan for many years, used to run an IRC server for a small IRC network back in my London days, and also ran a server for the same little network in my Japan days... The article was excellent, however, it made no mention of Matrix. Matrix, like IRC, is decentralised. You can run your own homeserver - just like running an ircd. Connecting to a Matrix…

Its still somewhat slow with loading existing chats but Matrix has serious potential. It is already doing much better than the fediverse in terms of discovering niche communities.

Agreed.

Some rooms have so many user and so much chat history, that my own puny homeserver struggles to join them. I've tried all sorts of tweaks - from tweaking the PostgreSQL service, to using things like noatime etc. on the ext4 filesystem. This has helped immensely, but some rooms, like the Python room on matrix.org, brings my homeserver to its knees :)

Perhaps in the future the Synapse devs will improve the code so that mammoth rooms don't bring more resource-starved homeservers down. Alternatively I could throw more resources at the homeserver, but for my use-case, the 6GB ram and 6 cores I assign to the VM running the Synapse instance and the PostgreSQL service - and the IRC bridge heheh - is the bare-minimum I can get away with.

On saying all that, I like Matrix more than I like IRC, nowadays, and more folks should IMO get on Matrix.

(p.s. custom emoji's would be lovely on Matrix ;) )

Re: IRC is the only viable chat protocol (2022)

#189

Post by 6510 »

Biganon wrote: post #108
op00to wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, let’s just spend 30 minutes grepping the IRC logs!

If you have the logs as text files, then there's literally nothing you could be doing better. Want to index them? Turn them into a database? Use fuzzy search? Grepping? Everything is possible. Therefore I don't understand your sarcasm. What's the alternative? If you find Discord's search feature good, you could implement it on top of the text logs.

There are fancy gui's to search in text files even on linux.

Re: IRC is the only viable chat protocol (2022)

#190

Post by rcxdude »

magsarion wrote: post #184
rcxdude wrote: post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So supplement IRC with a bunch of other services? Realising people didn't want to deal with this shit is why discord is so popular. (Seriously, this response and others like it demonstrate that IRC will continue to remain a niche. I won't fault you if this kind of setup works for you but suggesting this kind of thing is acceptable for the average user is really, truly, genuinely out of touch. I'm among the demographi…

[dead]

People always mention "marketing" as a reason for Discord's success, and I always wonder what they mean. It's a poster child of adoption through word-of-mouth, I don't know if they've engaged seriously with advertising. I'm serious, you have absolutely no clue what the average user values and how your suggestions don't meet that while discord does. Discord may go the way of the dodo due to enshittification but the successor will be another option that actually adresses most users needs, not IRC (which I'm sure will still be around: gopher's still around, people are still tinkering with 9600 baud modems and the like, a tech like that will never completely die but it's also delusional to expect that it's not mainstream just because the alternative has better marketing)
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