Play deprivation is a major cause of the teen mental health crisis

This is a really great post and I appreciate it, and I don't even know where to start and how to respond. I suspect we have some very different assumptions which I'll try to make clear, which will lead us to disagreement, but that's okay. I wish we had the ability to sit down and talk this over in person, that would be extremely interesting. (I'm in the UK, which might give context)

The largest assumption that seems to be behind your position is that society should not have recreational drugs. Is this correct? I disagree, I think recreational drugs used appropriately can improve life. Obviously if abused they may wreck it.

> there are only two options: kids learn about drugs by others telling them about it, or they learn by trying them. the latter is dangerous, so the former is the only option. everything else is the environment.

Without being trite, everything is dangerous in degree. A famous UK government drug researcher published a paper, details here https://www.drugscience.org.uk/societys-inconsistent-moral-j... that compared the risks of horseriding with MDMA and found that MDMA was safer (he was sacked for this).

> my parents never talked to me about drugs or alcohol. we did talk about it in school though. i simply grew up in a family where alcohol or drugs did not exist, in an environment where kids didn't have easy access to alcohol

I think we have had very different backgrounds. For a large part of my life we were living in council estates under a lot of stress. A lot. There's a lot of drinking and smoking from the other people there because they were self-medicating against the stress. I think there's a link between heroin use and Vietnam war that is well known in the US? It could be the biggest cause of drug use is stress; people just trying to cope.

> and where we were generally educated in school to avoid that stuff.

I'm uncomfortable because you're trying to make up other people's minds for them. I think that's an infringement on their right to independent thought – does that make sense?

> that's the kind of environment i grew up in. tell me how does that make me drug-naive and put me at risk?

It doesn't automatically do so, and in fact I may be completely wrong in assuming it can do, but at some point if some people have the opportunity to take harder drugs than alcohol, they will. For example, me. And I don't regret it, and having it delayed from my childhood into adulthood was probably a damn good thing – I'm less impulsive and more able to control the risks.

> of course if that is not your environment then you have to be more proactive about making sure your kids are aware of the dangers,

And benefits? Do you allow there could be benefits to recreational drugs used appropriately and in moderation?

> but in general, what has the most value is the example you give as parents. if you drink, you will have a much harder time to convince your kids to not drink.

Completely agree.

> and for drugs it is my understanding that those who have experience with alcohol are more likely to try harder drugs too. (even just a small percentage) but more important the reverse, those that do not drink alcohol also are unlikely to try harder drugs. my interpretation of that is that if i want my kids to avoid drugs i can do that by not drinking alcohol and showing them that they need not join their peers when they drink.

These links agree with you

https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/is-alcohol-a-gatew... https://www.therecoveryvillage.com/alcohol-abuse/alcohol-gat... https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/22712674/

But they also say "Addiction is a complex disease – prior use of alcohol is simply another risk factor among many, and there is no single explanation for why someone becomes addicted. The interrelationships between the gateway drugs (tobacco, alcohol and cannabis) are complex"

If you grew up in a different environment, under a lot more stress than it sounds you suffered, it may be the stress that is triggering use of alcohol and any other drugs you can lay your hands on. Found the heroine/Vietnam war link https://jamesclear.com/heroin-habits The soldiers got addicted due to stress and other factors, unexpectedly when they returned home a lot of them just stopped using it because the stress was, presumably "In other words, approximately nine out of ten soldiers who used heroin in Vietnam eliminated their addiction nearly overnight"

> this is not to say that anyone drinking is putting their kids at risk, but that not drinking is very helpful to reduce that risk.

Agreed.

I'm not actually pro drugs, if there's one drug I would really like to make illegal it's cigarettes, and I would very, very much like to see the end of all and any advertising of alcohol.

Hope you find this interesting

Hindsight is 20/20!

I think we are aligned. I certainly am more exposed to this as a parent than I remember seeing it as a kid. I can look back and remember all of my friends had sports/music/church/etc far more than I did, though.

That is, I feel it acutely, but not clear how much of this is the biases you named. Would love to see studies. I also failed finding any. I also agree it is almost certainly studied.

Parents are often pressured into it by nosy people who call the law if they see kids out by themselves.

There’s a massive gap between covering the basics and being in rat race optimizing for material stuff.

Who cares if you drive a fancy car or a 10 y/o toyota? Both gets you from A to B in a relatively safe manner. If someone does care, that’s his problem. Same applies to pretty much any expenses line. Meanwhile having plenty of time to yourself may help to prevent many health issues and do things that make life wholesome.