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Play deprivation is a major cause of the teen mental health crisis

jonathanhaidt.substack.com

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Re: Play deprivation is a major cause of the teen mental health crisis

#11

Post by doubled112 »

fnimick wrote: post #3

Meanwhile I know people who look at analytics and numbers to decide what sports and activities their child (who is still in elementary school!) should be doing in order to maximize college admissions chances. It's madness. Don't play violin (even if you like it) because there are too many people doing that, you have to do something unique. Don't play basketball, it's too common and therefore too hard to stand out, yo…

As a dad of two, this timeline sucks.

Even children need to be optimized for maximum success (so profit) now? Must have missed that memo.

Re: Play deprivation is a major cause of the teen mental health crisis

#13

Post by gloryjulio »

fnimick wrote: post #6
atonse wrote: post #2

We have really made it a point to have our kid play freely as much as possible and minimize scheduled activities (piano lessons etc.) the problem is that most of his friends are in a million classes so even if he’s free, they often aren’t. That’s been the big challenge. So then there are these magical days where they all don’t have any activities and those invariably happen to be the days ALL kids look forward to. Cu…

Sure, but are you maximizing his college admissions chances via skills in carefully selected activities in order to stand out? (mostly joking, but this is how a lot of people approach scheduling these days)

I agree. You get to be really careful where you want to put ur skill points. Play time is part of the skill tree too ;)

Full scheduling of random stuff doesn't mean it would always help the children. It's the children's version of appearing busy.

Re: Play deprivation is a major cause of the teen mental health crisis

#14

Post by awesomeMilou »

evrimoztamur wrote: post #8
atonse wrote: post #2

We have really made it a point to have our kid play freely as much as possible and minimize scheduled activities (piano lessons etc.) the problem is that most of his friends are in a million classes so even if he’s free, they often aren’t. That’s been the big challenge. So then there are these magical days where they all don’t have any activities and those invariably happen to be the days ALL kids look forward to. Cu…

This makes it sound like the adult pains of holding friendships alive as you grow older. Everybody is busy with their lives and coordinating even with your closest friends leads to 'agenda conflicts' that push your time together weeks or months ahead. It's sad to see that this is happening to kids (who are often pushed into scheduled extracurriculars for better academic opportunities) too.

> (who are often pushed into scheduled extracurriculars for better academic opportunities) too.

Gotta say though, this seems to be purely a thing in the english speaking cultures. Apart from sport and maybe an instrument, extracurriculars aren't a thing in most european countries.

Extracurriculars are so peculiar that our ministry of education deems it necessary to make it a mandatory point for teachers to discuss when talking about american childrens typical day in school.

Re: Play deprivation is a major cause of the teen mental health crisis

#15

Post by bowsamic »

atonse wrote: post #2

We have really made it a point to have our kid play freely as much as possible and minimize scheduled activities (piano lessons etc.) the problem is that most of his friends are in a million classes so even if he’s free, they often aren’t. That’s been the big challenge. So then there are these magical days where they all don’t have any activities and those invariably happen to be the days ALL kids look forward to. Cu…

[flagged]

Re: Play deprivation is a major cause of the teen mental health crisis

#16

Post by 2OEH8eoCRo0 »

evrimoztamur wrote: post #8
atonse wrote: post #2

We have really made it a point to have our kid play freely as much as possible and minimize scheduled activities (piano lessons etc.) the problem is that most of his friends are in a million classes so even if he’s free, they often aren’t. That’s been the big challenge. So then there are these magical days where they all don’t have any activities and those invariably happen to be the days ALL kids look forward to. Cu…

This makes it sound like the adult pains of holding friendships alive as you grow older. Everybody is busy with their lives and coordinating even with your closest friends leads to 'agenda conflicts' that push your time together weeks or months ahead. It's sad to see that this is happening to kids (who are often pushed into scheduled extracurriculars for better academic opportunities) too.

> This makes it sound like the adult pains of holding friendships alive as you grow older.

Bring back the pop-in!

Re: Play deprivation is a major cause of the teen mental health crisis

#17

Post by atonse »

fnimick wrote: post #6
atonse wrote: post #2

We have really made it a point to have our kid play freely as much as possible and minimize scheduled activities (piano lessons etc.) the problem is that most of his friends are in a million classes so even if he’s free, they often aren’t. That’s been the big challenge. So then there are these magical days where they all don’t have any activities and those invariably happen to be the days ALL kids look forward to. Cu…

Sure, but are you maximizing his college admissions chances via skills in carefully selected activities in order to stand out? (mostly joking, but this is how a lot of people approach scheduling these days)

haha I have been maximizing the annoyance level of my parents and others by telling my kids these things:

- don’t focus on GPA, focus on actually gaining knowledge and understanding how the world works. good grades are a measure of how you understand things. they should never be the goal. I was a C student and I am more curious about things than many of my peers with fancy degrees.

- forge your own path, there is always a thousand different paths out there. College is just one.

- no replacement for hard work. don’t expect anything in life. anything worth getting, you’ll have to compete with many others to get it so learn to be a good competitor.

- college should be approached with all the tradeoffs and as any other investment. We’ve told them we will not pay for their college. so they will have to make choices about getting the best bang for your buck. We’re the only parents in our whole social circle that aren’t saving for their college. it feels weird and isolating when that topic comes up.

- first think about the kind of life you want and then make choices to get you that life.

they’re already sick if my lectures. and they’re 10 and 5. :-)

Re: Play deprivation is a major cause of the teen mental health crisis

#18

Post by caesil »

I wonder if this doesn't have a lot to do with cars.

In surrendering utterly to the preeminence of streets, we have essentially taken our open, free world and overlain it with an immense grid of electric fences -- thick lines all over the map that, if children wander across them, might easily lead to their deaths.

So "hold hands everywhere" and "don't let your children run free outside" become the norms. The only safe place is locked inside or behind fences; the wider world is a death trap for children.

Play inherently requires a degree of freedom, but children have none. We are just prison guards eternally transferring them from one captivity to another.

Re: Play deprivation is a major cause of the teen mental health crisis

#19

Post by ccleve »

atonse wrote: post #2

We have really made it a point to have our kid play freely as much as possible and minimize scheduled activities (piano lessons etc.) the problem is that most of his friends are in a million classes so even if he’s free, they often aren’t. That’s been the big challenge. So then there are these magical days where they all don’t have any activities and those invariably happen to be the days ALL kids look forward to. Cu…

I came here to post exactly this. It is appalling that we live in a neighborhood where everyone can walk, there are plenty of kids that my son knows within a mile, he's 14 and more than old enough to be out on his own, but every one of his friends is in a math class, or French school, or out of town on vacation, constantly. He goes to the park and there is no one there. So he stays home and watches anime. The only way we can get him out is to call other parents and schedule something.

There is something deeply wrong here. I blame other parents who overschedule their kids.

Re: Play deprivation is a major cause of the teen mental health crisis

#20

Post by fnimick »

doubled112 wrote: post #11
fnimick wrote: post #3

Meanwhile I know people who look at analytics and numbers to decide what sports and activities their child (who is still in elementary school!) should be doing in order to maximize college admissions chances. It's madness. Don't play violin (even if you like it) because there are too many people doing that, you have to do something unique. Don't play basketball, it's too common and therefore too hard to stand out, yo…

As a dad of two, this timeline sucks. Even children need to be optimized for maximum success (so profit) now? Must have missed that memo.

The "optimization" really is around signifying class. How much can you afford the exotic activities, how good is your network to get that unpaid internship or that volunteer opportunity, and of course you can't be in a financial situation where your child has to do menial work like retail.

There was a discussion here a while back with a college admissions person where they confirmed that volunteer work is a bonus where actual work is not. It's not explicitly stated, but anyone who comes from a family where they _have_ to work is at a disadvantage.

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