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Play deprivation is a major cause of the teen mental health crisis

jonathanhaidt.substack.com

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Re: Play deprivation is a major cause of the teen mental health crisis

#361

Post by mantas »

awesomeMilou wrote: post #171
mantas wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unfortunately it’s getting worse here. In my youth few kids had scheduled activities. 20 years later, many kids are on a rather tight schedule.

Doesn't make a difference for college admission, and it likely will not for a long time. It's mostly grades that decide who get's into college and bologna affirms that you have a free choice on where to attend. It does make sense to prepare your child for college in such a way that it is able to live self sufficiently and teach discipline in learning, but no university gives a crap on what debate club you ran in high…

Discipline is one of those things that are truly important. But I don’t think parents-overscheduled activities help that much with it. Otherwise discipline goes out the window when nobody is on your shoulder anymore.

Learning to live self sufficiently is better with unstructured time IMO. When you have to learn to put together your own schedule, follow it and do day-to-day tasks. It’s horrible how many kids can’t make themselves dinner and clean up the house after themselves. Because kid is always busy and mommy takes care of everything because little 18 y/o is so tired. Of course it doesn’t help that in many cases mommy can’t do much better than microwave dinner or order a takeout :/

Re: Play deprivation is a major cause of the teen mental health crisis

#362

Post by onetokeoverthe »

Waterluvian wrote: post #9

This may be obvious or well-discussed but I had an epiphany some years back when my dad, regarding my kids, said (paraphrasing), "they're not playing. 'Play' is a misleading term. They're testing the world. They're learning how things work. How gravity works. How friction holds lego together. How actions cause reactions. How friends and strangers behave when you do things. How to use language with make believe. How t…

[dead]

Re: Play deprivation is a major cause of the teen mental health crisis

#363

Post by thefz »

Yet if you point out that the current state of teens is "not alright", you will drown in comments teaching you that this is something that every genration thinks of the one before, and kids are better and better, get called "boomer"...

... Oh, and the compulsory XKCD link https://xkcd.com/1227/

Re: Play deprivation is a major cause of the teen mental health crisis

#364

Post by lencastre »

Gerard0 wrote: post #252
lolinder wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wholeheartedly agree based on my own kids, but want to add a caution lest someone misunderstand: this testing, learning, and growing is of a kind that can only be done without adult supervision. It's not something that you can give them with a private lesson. It's not something that can be taught in a classroom. It's not something that can happen at all without adults letting the kids figure it out on their own by…

Of course we told (many times) our 3 yr old son not to put his hand on the stove. And one day he just had to try it and feel what all these stories were about. He started crying immediately. We went to the hospital and came back rather quick. It wasn't so bad, just had to have a bandage for a couple of days. Some weeks later he does it again. On purpuse. !!?? I tell my brother and he answers: "I kind of understand hi…

The best we hope is that they learn to take good decisions. Too much bubble wrap and they maybe will crumble in face of adversity, too much neglect and they will get their attention from elsewhere. All are maybes.

What children perhaps need is a different amount of parenting in different stages. Someone wrote that first you are the authority figure and the lighthouse for love and safety, then you become more of a mentor as they grow up.

Again, the best you can hope for is that they learn good enough values and let them live their lives, it’s THEIR LIVES, not yours and maybe they will come to you for help. And when that happens, go to town!

Re: Play deprivation is a major cause of the teen mental health crisis

#365

Post by em-bee »

defrost wrote: post #348
em-bee wrote: post #343

Earlier quoted context omitted.

ok, you are right, but it should not happen. i don't allow my kids to react that way. it is not a natural consequence, and not one they should learn to accept.

> it is not a natural consequence Cats, dogs, animals in the wild not not agree, try taking their food away and see what their natural reaction is to theft and|or interference. > and not one they should learn to accept. I agree that they should not learn to accept being punched for knocking down other peoples lego houses, I agree they should not learn to accept being punched for cheating others out of their lunch mon…

we're in agreement here on the need to play nice and to first address poor behaviour with non violence

yes of course. what i was trying to suggest is that punishment that happens in well moderated game servers is adequate, and comparable to what should happen outside.

Re: Play deprivation is a major cause of the teen mental health crisis

#366

Post by sourcecodeplz »

twiddling wrote: post #249
sourcecodeplz wrote: post #239

My knees and elbows were constantly hurt from all the activities.

I remember my friends and I playing tag in a copse of trees which were close enough to swing to and from branches between them. Fell out once and laid there on the ground , breath knocked out of me, staring at the dappled light through the trees... In my 50s and I still smile when I think about that day.

I once worked my courage up to go to the skate park with my roller blades. I fell on my ass when trying to go down the quarter-pipe. I felt like dying and couldn't breath. When I got home I threw them in the trash, without hesitation.

Re: Play deprivation is a major cause of the teen mental health crisis

#367

Post by imtringued »

NoZebra120vClip wrote: post #153
shard wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> this seems to be purely a thing in the english speaking cultures This is a major thing in many East Asian cultures as well, China/Taiwan/Japan/Korea. Korea had to pass a law saying that private academies have to close at 10pm, so that kids aren't studying past midnight, but some academies still stay open secretly as the parents are demanding the extra hours. It's a vicious circle: kids compete for the few spots in…

After bedtime, I would grab a book, creep into the bathroom, and hop into the dry bathtub to read. I preferred this to a flashlight under the covers. Mom would find me, send me back to bed, and shame me for reading. Then I was further shamed and humiliated when I was fitted for spectacles in third grade. Of course my parents blamed myopia on reading books in poor lighting. That bathroom was actually the site of innum…

Myopia is caused by spending time indoors without full wavelength sun exposure btw. Two hours outdoors when the sun is bright should be enough.

Re: Play deprivation is a major cause of the teen mental health crisis

#368

Post by mantas »

bowsamic wrote: post #359
mantas wrote: post #355

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’d argue those kids don’t learn much concentration and so on. Being forced by your parents to follow schedule they made is quite a mundane skill. Works great to become a mindless office worker though. Look down, carry out tasks you’re told to do… and don’t complain. But is it really a life to look forward to?

It takes concentration and effort to follow schedule They should aim to become a so-called “mindless office worker” as it offers a very high quality of life, so yes that is a life worth looking forward to. It’s a life our ancestors would sell their daughters for

If your mom drives you around and makes sure you put in some extra time on top… I’m not sure it takes much effort. Especially when stopping those activities is not a choice. Zen monk and prisoner schedules may seem similar, but skills to follow both are very different.

I don’t agree that office drone life in rat race is worth looking to anymore. It’s a miserable mix of depression, obesity, long hours away from one’s family and likely loving a cramped life in a non-humanly-sized mega city.

Generative AI will probably take a lot of less soul sucking jobs on that front. While certain cultures embracing 996 will compete for others.

Depending on AI progress, I‘ll probably steer my kid towards vocational school. Tile layers, santechniks and electricians looks like very promising getaway from all this BS. Or whatever comes into picture in the next decade.

Re: Play deprivation is a major cause of the teen mental health crisis

#369

Post by mantas »

bowsamic wrote: post #360
mantas wrote: post #357

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wouldn’t say rat race is problem-free life. All sorts of mental and physical health issues plague the modern rat race society. The only realistic way to win is not to play.

You can not play if you want but you will be impoverished This enlightened thinking is good for you ego but you do actually have a material body to feed, so you either play the game of life or you die

Game of life and rat race is two different things.

And yes, you may call it impoverished. But is it really worth to optimise for material stuff? Settling down with less may pay off a ton in other departments.

Re: Play deprivation is a major cause of the teen mental health crisis

#370

Post by fatnoah »

duckmysick wrote: post #265
mrguyorama wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you don't allow your kids to fuck up, they will never build healthy behaviors around fucking up. It's very helpful for kids to give them safe chances to fuck up.

I've been wondering: how do we teach kids about addiction (substances, gambling, phone/internet) and its consequences? Theoretical explanation is not effective. Letting them experience it first hand might be too destructive, because of the nature of the addiction. Can any parent chime in what worked and what didn't?

> I've been wondering: how do we teach kids about addiction (substances, gambling, phone/internet) and its consequences?

I can't speak to device addiction, but I from ages 4-12, we raised our child in a major US city. In that environment, one comes across the direct results of drug addiction occasionally.

While we do talk about addiction and related things, but ultimately it's his experiences that shape his views more than words from dad. One of those was taking a trip to the park for a play dare and being late because we stopped to check on (and call 911 for) a man along the way who was passed out with a needle still stuck in his arm.

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