Play deprivation is a major cause of the teen mental health crisis • Hacker News Board

Re: Play deprivation is a major cause of the teen mental health crisis

#71

Post by Waterluvian » Fri, Jul 28, 2023, 6:38 PM UTC

theptip wrote: post #65

Waterluvian wrote: post #9

This may be obvious or well-discussed but I had an epiphany some years back when my dad, regarding my kids, said (paraphrasing), "they're not playing. 'Play' is a misleading term. They're testing the world. They're learning how things work. How gravity works. How friction holds lego together. How actions cause reactions. How friends and strangers behave when you do things. How to use language with make believe. How t…

WoW is an interesting example. I’m sure there are lessons to be learned in any activity; it’s not like structured playtime is giving you zero information to update your world model. I suppose the question is whether the “learning density” is high or low, and diverse, in video games. I spent a lot of time on single player games as a kid and am open to the idea that MMOs give you more learning (particularly social, of…

That's usually on my mind, especially since my parents did a lot of "you're on X all the time" where X was at least a dozen different things throughout my teenage years.

The way I'm approaching it is simply: all things in moderation. Did you go outside today? Do a bit of tidying? Spend some time at the craft table? Go nuts with Super Mario after dinner. Did you wake up and play Mario for a few hours and get cranky when your brother asked you to play outside? Might be time to press the parental finger on the scale.

Re: Play deprivation is a major cause of the teen mental health crisis

#72

Post by SoftTalker » Fri, Jul 28, 2023, 6:38 PM UTC

atonse wrote: post #2

We have really made it a point to have our kid play freely as much as possible and minimize scheduled activities (piano lessons etc.) the problem is that most of his friends are in a million classes so even if he’s free, they often aren’t. That’s been the big challenge. So then there are these magical days where they all don’t have any activities and those invariably happen to be the days ALL kids look forward to. Cu…

Structured lessons and organized sports are not the problem, kids have been taking piano lessons and swim lessons and playing Little League baseball since forever. But it can't be exclusively that. They need unstructured free play as well.

Re: Play deprivation is a major cause of the teen mental health crisis

#73

Post by HWR_14 » Fri, Jul 28, 2023, 6:39 PM UTC

lolinder wrote: post #44

Waterluvian wrote: post #9

This may be obvious or well-discussed but I had an epiphany some years back when my dad, regarding my kids, said (paraphrasing), "they're not playing. 'Play' is a misleading term. They're testing the world. They're learning how things work. How gravity works. How friction holds lego together. How actions cause reactions. How friends and strangers behave when you do things. How to use language with make believe. How t…

I wholeheartedly agree based on my own kids, but want to add a caution lest someone misunderstand: this testing, learning, and growing is of a kind that can only be done without adult supervision. It's not something that you can give them with a private lesson. It's not something that can be taught in a classroom. It's not something that can happen at all without adults letting the kids figure it out on their own by…

> We know the toy will break if it's repeatedly thrown down the stairs, so we impose a rule that "we don't do that in our house"

For many parents, the toy is expensive enough that it warrants a rule (like the stove.)

Re: Play deprivation is a major cause of the teen mental health crisis

#74

Post by medvezhenok » Fri, Jul 28, 2023, 6:40 PM UTC

MattGaiser wrote: post #41

deanmoriarty wrote: post #22

Wow, this is so sad. I grew up in Europe in the 90s with parents who pretty much let me do whatever I wanted as long as I was a well-behaved child/teenager and getting reasonable school grades. At 6 years old I was literally biking by the river or wandering in the woods with my friends after school for hours on end. Every day was an exciting adventure without any adult supervision, just random groups of 2-10 kids who…

> This did not prevent me from going to a great university in my country, get my master in Computer Engineering, have a curriculum good enough to immigrate to the US, and working at several tech companies including FAANG, making high 6 figures now. The key question is more, could you do that today and would you sacrifice that to give your kids that childhood? Would your grades and lack of extracurriculars have earned…

This is a really good point that people miss. Sure, the (insert birth year here) childhood seems really nice in retrospect, but many of the realities of life have changed, and someone growing up with that kind of childhood today will not necessarily have the same outcomes as back then.

Re: Play deprivation is a major cause of the teen mental health crisis

#75

Post by iancmceachern » Fri, Jul 28, 2023, 6:40 PM UTC

Waterluvian wrote: post #9

This may be obvious or well-discussed but I had an epiphany some years back when my dad, regarding my kids, said (paraphrasing), "they're not playing. 'Play' is a misleading term. They're testing the world. They're learning how things work. How gravity works. How friction holds lego together. How actions cause reactions. How friends and strangers behave when you do things. How to use language with make believe. How t…

It's scrimmage for life

Re: Play deprivation is a major cause of the teen mental health crisis

#76

Post by 1letterunixname » Fri, Jul 28, 2023, 6:41 PM UTC

Old guy perspective: When I was a kid(tm), I played with a neighbor almost every weekend be it skateboarding, building a fort, playing Nintendo, or riding bikes around the neighbor. That was back when toy guns didn't have orange tips and parks didn't have ultra-safe, ultra-boring equipment.

Perhaps the real losses of community and public commons (other countries call it "commonwealth") create a desert of human interaction. Maybe this is partly why the US has an absurd number of depressed and maladjusted young people.

Re: Play deprivation is a major cause of the teen mental health crisis

#77

Post by doubled112 » Fri, Jul 28, 2023, 6:41 PM UTC

afavour wrote: post #45

alexpetralia wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

(deleted - posted under the wrong comment)

Agreed. Also in NYC and while I do trust my kid with road safety I’ve witnessed so many drivers blowing through a red light, speeding, parking in the middle of a crosswalk and pulling all kinds of dangerous manoeuvers that the streets don’t actually feel particularly safe. There’s just zero enforcement out there.

I was in an intersection one morning after walking the kids to school, and almost hit by a man running the all way stop. It wasn't even the standard for the neighbourhood rolling stop, but full on blowing through it.

I threw up an arm in disapproval, and he flipped me off in return, like I was the problem. Sometimes the entitlement is unreal, and I'm not sure how much enforcement it would take before people did the right thing.

There was a YouTube video of a man standing on the sidewalk next to a puddle with an umbrella, then a brick. Perhaps staged, but I'll let you guess which one kept him drier.

Re: Play deprivation is a major cause of the teen mental health crisis

#78

Post by omnicognate » Fri, Jul 28, 2023, 6:41 PM UTC

afavour wrote: post #43

ccleve wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I came here to post exactly this. It is appalling that we live in a neighborhood where everyone can walk, there are plenty of kids that my son knows within a mile, he's 14 and more than old enough to be out on his own, but every one of his friends is in a math class, or French school, or out of town on vacation, constantly. He goes to the park and there is no one there. So he stays home and watches anime. The only wa…

> I blame other parents Ah, the mantra of our parental lives! These classes kids go to aren’t always some kind of arduous, academic overachiever factory. My kid goes to a Spanish immersion after school program once a week and she loves it. She’s made a ton of friends there. We’re not shoving her through the door. Don’t get me wrong, some parents do go over the top with it, no doubt. But a lot of these activities are…

It's not about your kid going to a Spanish class once a week, and the objection isn't that doing that isn't enriching for your kid.

The problem is over the holidays when all your kid's friends have been sent to camps and summer schools (mostly as a form of holiday childcare for working parents presumably) or taken away on holiday, leaving your kid with nobody to play with. It presumably varies a lot but it's a real thing in our and our childrens' lives. The summer holidays should be filled with friends and play, not spent at home with your parents because nobody's available.

Re: Play deprivation is a major cause of the teen mental health crisis

#79

Post by mrguyorama » Fri, Jul 28, 2023, 6:41 PM UTC

Waterluvian wrote: post #9

This may be obvious or well-discussed but I had an epiphany some years back when my dad, regarding my kids, said (paraphrasing), "they're not playing. 'Play' is a misleading term. They're testing the world. They're learning how things work. How gravity works. How friction holds lego together. How actions cause reactions. How friends and strangers behave when you do things. How to use language with make believe. How t…

>'Play' is a misleading term.

In psychology, the rest of your post is what "play" means. It's basically anything done as practice, or with low stakes, or without other purpose.

Re: Play deprivation is a major cause of the teen mental health crisis

#80

Post by mrguyorama » Fri, Jul 28, 2023, 6:43 PM UTC

Waterluvian wrote: post #48

lolinder wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wholeheartedly agree based on my own kids, but want to add a caution lest someone misunderstand: this testing, learning, and growing is of a kind that can only be done without adult supervision. It's not something that you can give them with a private lesson. It's not something that can be taught in a classroom. It's not something that can happen at all without adults letting the kids figure it out on their own by…

The way I explain this is, "my job is not to protect my kids from harm, it's to protect them from irreparable harm." I've had this instinct whenever my kids are on the jungle gym to say, "slow down!" "That's too high!" etc. but I usually catch myself and think, "if they fall is it a cry or a hospital visit?"

If you don't allow your kids to fuck up, they will never build healthy behaviors around fucking up. It's very helpful for kids to give them safe chances to fuck up.