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‘Something weird is going on’: Antarctic sea ice stays at historic lows

theguardian.com

51–60 of 113 posts

Re: ‘Something weird is going on’: Antarctic sea ice stays at historic lows

#51
post #14
post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I don't believe there is anything we can do about the impending climate changes. But there is (something we could do). Climate change is caused by pollution and overconsumption. We're perfectly capable to change that ... we just don't want to. If we don't, the nature will force us. As it does with every species in overshoot. > all we can do is learn, prepare, and adapt But we don't know how it will play out. Imagin…

We would need to immediately stop the production and sale of all fossil fuels worldwide, at the point of a gun if necessary. The chances of this happening are zero.

We should use fossil fuels to transition away from fossil fuels asap.

And stop using them for things we don't need.

Re: ‘Something weird is going on’: Antarctic sea ice stays at historic lows

#52

I don't believe there is anything we can do about the impending climate changes. In my opinion all we can do is learn, prepare, and adapt.

Adapting is actually a bad decision. If everyone invests into local counter measures such as ACs or flood walls rather than reducing emissions, we might take away resources spend on the cause of climate change.

The estimated cost for net zero are only 3-6% of global GDP per year until 2050. Totally doable.

Re: ‘Something weird is going on’: Antarctic sea ice stays at historic lows

#53
post #16

I don't believe there is anything we can do about the impending climate changes. In my opinion all we can do is learn, prepare, and adapt.

We can't adapt to something that keeps changing. If we keep putting out CO2, the climate will keep getting hotter. It's not as if giving up will make it stop here. It really can go to 8C or more, a temperature that will make large parts of the earth uninhabitable. We're going to be forced to make changes -- not just "adapt" but substantially alter society. The longer we wait the worse it will be.

Of course we can adapt to things that keep changing. Noting is static in the universe, change is inevitable.

Sure, billons will die and it will be the end of our civilisation as we know it, but either we'll adapt to the new life or we won't.

Re: ‘Something weird is going on’: Antarctic sea ice stays at historic lows

#54
Whatever disaster you might want to impose on the world to solve the problem--and decarbonization without fusion power would be a terrific disaster--will be as bad as the sea levels rising a few feet. Actually, much worse.

The real solution, of course, is population control. And step one in population control is shutting down immigration. Very few politicians want that, and basically none on the left. So it won't happen. They will continue demanding that the government seize control of the means of production and distribution, and not actually fix anything.

Re: ‘Something weird is going on’: Antarctic sea ice stays at historic lows

#55
post #5

Another day passes, another day nowhere near enough is being done to get on top of this situation. If the US government had any brains, they'd be setting up a WW2 style mobilization against climate change and moving towards almost immediate decarbonization. This is an international effort working with NATO allies. It would only benefit everyone. New industry, safer economic outcomes long term, nicer world to live in.…

I think it wouldn't even require so much as a WW2 mobilization. It needs 3-6% of GDP (globally) to replace fossils fuels and get to net Zero.

Re: ‘Something weird is going on’: Antarctic sea ice stays at historic lows

#56
post #7
post #5

Another day passes, another day nowhere near enough is being done to get on top of this situation. If the US government had any brains, they'd be setting up a WW2 style mobilization against climate change and moving towards almost immediate decarbonization. This is an international effort working with NATO allies. It would only benefit everyone. New industry, safer economic outcomes long term, nicer world to live in.…

The worse the situation becomes, the less will be done. We could have taken action even 10, 20, or 40 years ago, but so far, we have done nothing significant to prevent it from happening. The longer we wait, the more expensive and complicated the solutions will become. Politicians are often reluctant to make unpopular moves that might anger their base, so they tend to focus on short-term goals rather than long-term s…

Human population growth has stopped everywhere except some African countries.

Re: ‘Something weird is going on’: Antarctic sea ice stays at historic lows

#57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Republicans have made climate denial part of their identity. The US isn't capable of doing anything federally until the nation is reunified.

Look up Democrats' views on nuclear energy.

Nuclear is too slow and expensive to make any change. Just embrace wind and solar and everything will be fine.

Re: ‘Something weird is going on’: Antarctic sea ice stays at historic lows

#58
post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I don't believe there is anything we can do about the impending climate changes. But there is (something we could do). Climate change is caused by pollution and overconsumption. We're perfectly capable to change that ... we just don't want to. If we don't, the nature will force us. As it does with every species in overshoot. > all we can do is learn, prepare, and adapt But we don't know how it will play out. Imagin…

> Climate change is caused by pollution and overconsumption. We're perfectly capable to change that ... we just don't want to. Yes, we can turn rich countries into poor countries by taking away transport, energy, and protein from the working class, and there's growing support for that approach. But that approach also destroys most of the hope for technological solutions. And even if the richest countries did sacrific…

> we can turn rich countries into poor countries by taking away transport

City and economy planning, work from home, basic income, degrowth ...

> energy

Renewable energy, insulation and heat pumps, not air-conditioners.

> protein from the working class

That's propaganda, and now you're getting somewhere. We already get 63% of our protein from plants. If we were to extend that to 100%, we could store our entire 1.5C carbon budget through afforesting and rewilding pastures, which would also help restore biodiversity.

Climate change, resource depletion, deforestation, loss of biodiversity, pollution, overpopulation, soil erosion, and overfishing are all but symptoms of ecological overshoot.

Switching off animal protein would help solve climate change (15-25% impact, co2/methane/n20), deforestation, pollution, soil erosion and overfishing.

So it's one of the most impactful things we should do ... helping to solve 5 things out of 7.

> But that approach also destroys most of the hope for technological solutions.

We don't have any such solutions, that's something that sways the attention from things we already have at our disposal (just wait for this one thing that may or may not come ...).

> And even if the richest countries did sacrifice everything

Rich countries did/are doing most of the damage, the poorest ones are the ones paying most for it. If everyone would act as we do, we would need several more earths.

> if many other countries continued pursuing growth of economies, consumption, and population

Should they stay underdeveloped, or die out just so we could still be living like pigs in clover ?

Re: ‘Something weird is going on’: Antarctic sea ice stays at historic lows

#59
post #2

“It is very much outside our understanding of this system.” This is what worries me: climate change leading to entirely new regimes that we don't understand and thus can't model or predict with any accuracy. You just can't build a seawall for a sealevel rise of between 50 and 300 cm somewhere in about 20 to 50 years. Or for heatwaves of maximum 35 to 45 degrees, precipitation of max 20-100mm/hour, etc. Climate adapta…

If we aren’t able to predict it then we need to assume the worst. Start moving inland/to higher areas now. I’m not optimistic though. I don’t understand why people (with the means) continue to live and rebuild in areas that regularly get savaged by hurricanes, earthquakes and other natural disasters.

> Start moving inland/to higher areas now ... hurricanes, earthquakes and other natural disasters

Crop failures, famines, civilization collapse, wars, violence, slavery ...

Re: ‘Something weird is going on’: Antarctic sea ice stays at historic lows

#60

Whatever disaster you might want to impose on the world to solve the problem--and decarbonization without fusion power would be a terrific disaster--will be as bad as the sea levels rising a few feet. Actually, much worse. The real solution, of course, is population control. And step one in population control is shutting down immigration. Very few politicians want that, and basically none on the left. So it won't hap…

> step one in population control is shutting down immigration

Yes, overconsume so much, that it heats the entire planet. Live in an area where is isn't as bad as elsewhere.

Build walls around borders to keep those suckers threatened with loss of livelihood to keep them our of our utopia.

Bad news, buddy.

Once those hundreds of millions/billions start moving, no walls are gonna stop them.

https://i.imgur.com/LaEFQmV.png

The relevant overpopulation is the overpopulation of rich people (curable by removal of wealth).

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