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This month is the planet’s hottest on record by far – and hottest in 120k years

cnn.com

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Re: This month is the planet’s hottest on record by far – and hottest in 120k years

#121

Post by timeon »

version_five wrote: post #42

Ok, so what's the actionable take here? Are people going to use this to try and push wealth redistribution and authoritarian controls which is about the only thing I've ever seen from "climate action" types? Or does this imply those wouldn't work anyway now? Is anyone or any government going to look at actual motivations to help live in a warmer place? And/or to pull carbon out of the air, or get more nuclear, or wha…

> only thing I've ever seen from "climate action" types

Not surprised. This topic should go across political spectrum. Unfortunately for several decades, instead of proposing solutions, right spectrum was denying that there is problem.

Re: This month is the planet’s hottest on record by far – and hottest in 120k years

#122

Post by janj »

zach_miller wrote: post #110
janj wrote: post #73

I've been thinking about how relief from the impacts of climate change will not be available for all. I was wondering if access to climate relief should be limited for people who denied climate change or supported climate change deniers. With past voting records, social media posts, etc, we should be able to figure that out for a large number of people. I think this would be very unpopular but if relief is limited ho…

No one person will decide. The “market” will decide. The strong will be relieved and the weak will suffer. To get relief the weak should become strong. Unfortunately, suffering will make them weaker. Are the currently strong going to keep the weak down, will the weak destroy the strong, will power be distributed to minimize the number of weak at the expense of the strong, or will something else entirely happen? My be…

I've been thinking the same. The fact that this issue is still not overwhelmingly recognized as legitimate seems to imply that a lot more suffering might be required before anything meaningful happens. Problem is the longer we wait the more pointless any action becomes.

Re: This month is the planet’s hottest on record by far – and hottest in 120k years

#123

Post by ndsipa_pomu »

EgregiousCube wrote: post #67
SideburnsOfDoom wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Temperatures in Europe have increased at more than twice the global average over the past 30 years – the highest of any continent in the world. https://public.wmo.int/en/media/press-release/temperatures-e... And since, then https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/wildfires-greece-burn-f... So, no, Europe is not least affected or best off.

The Greek wildfires may be a poor example here, as arson is suspected: https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/corfu-wildfi... . It's too early to ascribe a cause.

From that article:

> However once ignited, wildfires are being driven to larger and more intense extremes due to rising global heat and drought conditions caused by the climate crisis.

Re: This month is the planet’s hottest on record by far – and hottest in 120k years

#124

Post by anigbrowl »

EgregiousCube wrote: post #67
SideburnsOfDoom wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Temperatures in Europe have increased at more than twice the global average over the past 30 years – the highest of any continent in the world. https://public.wmo.int/en/media/press-release/temperatures-e... And since, then https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/wildfires-greece-burn-f... So, no, Europe is not least affected or best off.

The Greek wildfires may be a poor example here, as arson is suspected: https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/corfu-wildfi... . It's too early to ascribe a cause.

Arson is always 'suspected'. You can't burn an entire forest if it isn't already catastrophically dried out.

Re: This month is the planet’s hottest on record by far – and hottest in 120k years

#125

Post by jpadkins »

haskellandchill wrote: post #98
jpadkins wrote: post #54

[flagged]

that site is biased (not saying cnn is reliable for reporting on climate data). are there any research papers or other sources to consider?

good luck finding unbiased papers or sources on this topic.

best I've found is https://judithcurry.com/

Re: This month is the planet’s hottest on record by far – and hottest in 120k years

#126

Post by ianburrell »

version_five wrote: post #42

Ok, so what's the actionable take here? Are people going to use this to try and push wealth redistribution and authoritarian controls which is about the only thing I've ever seen from "climate action" types? Or does this imply those wouldn't work anyway now? Is anyone or any government going to look at actual motivations to help live in a warmer place? And/or to pull carbon out of the air, or get more nuclear, or wha…

How do you suggest paying for climate mitigation, carbon capture, or nuclear power? Those must be paid for by government since they aren't profitable. The rich have the money, and have benefited the most from carbon emissions.

How do you suggest reducing carbon emissions that aren't profitable? We are lucky that wind and solar cost less than other forms of energy, but at some point we will have to pay people to switch to electric cars and then make ICE cars illegal.

Dealing with climate change means everybody needs to stop producing carbon dioxide and pay to pump it back out of the atmosphere. Only government can do that.

Re: This month is the planet’s hottest on record by far – and hottest in 120k years

#127

Post by gottorf »

bryanlarsen wrote: post #19
gottorf wrote: post #2

At least in Europe, an order of magnitude (or two, depending on country) more people die from the cold than from the heat[0]. Going by the numbers, if green energy policy keeps summer temperatures down but makes energy more expensive[1], it will kill more people. [0]: https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lanplh/article/PIIS2542-5... [1]: https://news.climate.columbia.edu/2021/10/26/lets-come-clean...

Green energy policy in Europe has people replacing gas heat with heat pumps. And since heat pumps are also air conditioning, many European homes are getting air conditioning for the first time. One of those rare "have your cake and eat it too" moments.

Believe me, I'm all in favor of using heat pumps. I think it's silly the degree to which Europe as a whole relies on combustion heating, in a part of the world that doesn't get all that cold.

I just want to ensure that the electricity that powers those heat pumps doesn't get more expensive as a result of the shift away from nuclear and fossil fuels. There's some preliminary research to indicate that more renewable power in the grid results in lower wholesale prices[0], but the relationship isn't very strong, and it's likely that Europe soon will (if not already) meet the point of diminishing returns. After all, there are only so many places you can put wind turbines, solar panels, or dams.

[0]: https://www.imf.org/-/media/Files/Publications/WP/2022/Engli...

Re: This month is the planet’s hottest on record by far – and hottest in 120k years

#128

Post by PartiallyTyped »

nlitened wrote: post #82
PartiallyTyped wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Climate change affects both variance and mean of the weather. Which means both colder and hotter weather, and worse large scale events.

How?

Events like the polar jet-stream split are a consequence of increased temperature, and their frequency increases with heat.

When the jet-stream splits, air from Sahara gets trapped between the now two or three streams, and cannot escape. This creates a heat dome that we can’t manipulate and change.

Re: This month is the planet’s hottest on record by far – and hottest in 120k years

#129

Post by zirpderp »

jhedwards wrote: post #96
briantakita wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. Mathematical models with curated inputs & ever changing factors are not extraordinary evidence.

What I find extraordinary is that you can in good faith (which seems a little questionable tbh) say that the absolutely incredible amount of sophisticated evidence that scientists have developed in the last 100 years to repeatedly affirm that humans are dramatically altering the climate with fossil fuel use is NOT extraordinary. The technology and mathematics behind climate science are absolutely incredible and you m…

they don't think - they're told

Re: This month is the planet’s hottest on record by far – and hottest in 120k years

#130

Post by SideburnsOfDoom »

EgregiousCube wrote: post #67
SideburnsOfDoom wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Temperatures in Europe have increased at more than twice the global average over the past 30 years – the highest of any continent in the world. https://public.wmo.int/en/media/press-release/temperatures-e... And since, then https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/wildfires-greece-burn-f... So, no, Europe is not least affected or best off.

The Greek wildfires may be a poor example here, as arson is suspected: https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/corfu-wildfi... . It's too early to ascribe a cause.

That's a very bad take, as it covers only fires in Corfu specifically (and that see other replies regarding that), but not the extreme heat in general over Greece, Italy ( https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/jul/25/italy-wildfire... ) and most of the rest of Europe, and the other fires in other parts of Greece, e.g. Rhodes https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-66297476 , Evia https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/jul/24/greece-wildfir... etc.

Reducing Europe's summer 2023 to "The Greek wildfires" - fires plural - and then to "some arson on Corfu" is ridiculous minimisation.

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