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Community Note correcting Musk’s anti-vax tweet mysteriously disappears

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Re: Community Note correcting Musk’s anti-vax tweet mysteriously disappears

#81

Post by lapcat »

metiscus wrote: post #14
legulere wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Who was forced to get vaccinated in which country?

Define forced. Federal employees and federal contractors were required to be vaccinated or lose their jobs and this was also repeated in several US states. Military members were also forced to vaccinate or face other than honorable discharge or NJP at a minimum. Yes, nobody came with a gun and "forced" them to take it, but significant economic coercision meets my definition of force.

> significant economic coercision meets my definition of force.

Ok, but I hope you apply that criterion to every situation, and not just vaccination.

I find it interesting to consider the Venn diagram of people who claim that vaccination was forced and people who claim that everything (else) that happens in the free market is voluntary.

Re: Community Note correcting Musk’s anti-vax tweet mysteriously disappears

#83

Post by AnthonyMouse »

13years wrote: post #15
two_handfuls wrote: post #3

I’m surprised when I see people uncritically repeating the claim that Twitter now aims for “free speech.” It’s clear that was never true and always meant “Speech Elon wants to allow.”

Free speech is the most fragile principle of liberty. It readily makes hypocrites out of most of its strongest defenders.

This problem is not unique to free speech. Whoever is in power doesn't see why they should follow a principle their opponents violated when they were in power, except that then no one follows the principle and everyone is worse off for it. It's no different for privacy or due process or free association.

This is why we try to put these things in constitutions for governments, and build decentralized systems with no bureaucratic chokepoints for communications networks.

Re: Community Note correcting Musk’s anti-vax tweet mysteriously disappears

#84

Post by hombre_fatal »

VancouverMan wrote: post #53
hombre_fatal wrote: post #32

Community notes regularly disappear. It mainly comes down to the bent of a person's followers since they will simply downrank a community note. I frequently see someone screencapping someone's tweet + the community note to go "haha pwned" but then I visit the tweet and the note is long gone. Also, a lot of notes are low quality and seemingly upvoted just because they counter the tweet at all.

The concept of a "community note" never made sense to me. The "community" itself isn't really one entity with a coherent position on any particular matter. The "community" is just a byproduct of people coming together to engage in discussion. If somebody wanted to try to refute what somebody else claimed, it should have been done at an individual level, through the existing discussion mechanisms (a reply, or a new tw…

I appreciate the idea of community notes.

The problem is how widely a shit-tier or dangerous or bullshit tweet can spread, yet few people are going to click into it to read the replies, and there's no guarantee that a tweet that goes "Um, this is BS and here's why: " is going to appear at the top.

There's probably a better implementation of community notes. Like perhaps a way to vote existing replies or quote replies into community-note-status which you might agree with. But the value is showing a countervailing message inline with the original tweet since that's all people are going to read.

Re: Community Note correcting Musk’s anti-vax tweet mysteriously disappears

#85

Post by pessimizer »

nxx788 wrote: post #55
gadders wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When did he do that?

There are several instances of left wing folks being banned, he stated that "cis" will be disallowed on the platform, he's removed tweets at the behest of governments like the Saudis, and this post is literally about text disappearing, lol. It's not hard to find instances. Note, I think it's fine for companies to moderate speech on their platforms. No objections there. Just don't simultaneously claim you are some sor…

> There are several instances of left wing folks being banned

You understand that you were asked for one, right? This is not one, this is a vague claim being repeated.

> he stated that "cis" will be disallowed on the platform

No, he didn't. He said that "cis" being thrown as an insult to people who didn't wish to be called "cis" wouldn't automatically be discounted as harassment. Maybe I'm wrong about this - can you find a single person that was banned or censored by twitter for saying "cis?"

> It's not hard to find instances.

If it's too hard for you to do, why do you expect others to believe you when you say this?

Re: Community Note correcting Musk’s anti-vax tweet mysteriously disappears

#86

Post by AlexandrB »

tanseydavid wrote: post #70
ryneandal wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> To date, not a single document revealed has shown what people now falsely believe: that the US government and Twitter were working together to “censor” people based on their political viewpoints. Literally none of that has been shown at all. Instead, what’s been shown is that Twitter had a competent trust & safety team that debated tough questions around how to apply policies for users on their platform and did not…

>> Literally none of that has been shown at all. Instead, what’s been shown is that Twitter had a competent trust & safety team that debated tough questions around how to apply policies for users on their platform and did not seem at all politically motivated in their decisions. ...with the FBI providing unsolicited guidance along the way.

The FBI is part of the executive arm of government and a lot of this happened during Trump's tenure as president.

Re: Community Note correcting Musk’s anti-vax tweet mysteriously disappears

#87

Post by lathiat »

thelopa wrote: post #72
bko wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right because that's objectionable speech. You don't need to worry about non-objectionable speech because no one would care to censor it. I don't know what you mean by freedom on consequences. I guess a consequence of speech could be to get your account banned? If anything Twitter leaving up your objectionable content would result in more likely conferences of being fired or something.

And yet, Elon has decided that a term used in academic medical research for nearly a century, “cisgender”, is a slur and banned from the platform. Funny how he wants to protect objectionable speech that aligns with his political view while restricting “objectionable” speech that doesn’t.

From Wikipedia, while the concept has been discussed since at least 1914 the actual term cisgender has apparently only been used since 1994: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cisgender

Re: Community Note correcting Musk’s anti-vax tweet mysteriously disappears

#88

Post by pessimizer »

Exactly what was that note supposed to be correcting?

Humor me. Musk made a very short statement with a single factual claim: "Myocarditis is a known side-effect [of a vaccine.]"

The community note correcting it says that Covid causes more myocarditis than that covid vaccine.

How is that a correction? It's a snarky verification.

Re: Community Note correcting Musk’s anti-vax tweet mysteriously disappears

#89

Post by gadders »

manuelabeledo wrote: post #79
gadders wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But if you can give people the virus whether vaccinated or not, there is functionally no difference in how much you were endangering people. How does hospitals collapsing change that?

> But if you can give people the virus whether vaccinated or not, there is functionally no difference in how much you were endangering people You are now suggesting that vaccines did not prevent severe illness, which is not true.

But that doesn't change whether you are endangering people by infecting them.

Re: Community Note correcting Musk’s anti-vax tweet mysteriously disappears

#90

Post by AnthonyMouse »

hombre_fatal wrote: post #84
VancouverMan wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The concept of a "community note" never made sense to me. The "community" itself isn't really one entity with a coherent position on any particular matter. The "community" is just a byproduct of people coming together to engage in discussion. If somebody wanted to try to refute what somebody else claimed, it should have been done at an individual level, through the existing discussion mechanisms (a reply, or a new tw…

I appreciate the idea of community notes. The problem is how widely a shit-tier or dangerous or bullshit tweet can spread, yet few people are going to click into it to read the replies, and there's no guarantee that a tweet that goes "Um, this is BS and here's why: " is going to appear at the top. There's probably a better implementation of community notes. Like perhaps a way to vote existing replies or quote replies…

> Like perhaps a way to vote existing replies or quote replies into community-note-status which you might agree with.

If only social media sites had some kind of voting or points system that contributes to visibility?

The basic problem here is that high quality moderation is extremely expensive but low quality moderation outrages its victims and is susceptible to manipulation by partisans and SEO scum.

As far as I can tell the best solution is to make filtering modular so that it's independent of the hosting site. Then the site doesn't get dumped on for screwing it up and if you don't like some particular solution you personally can switch to another one without losing the network effect, or try your hand at doing it yourself to see how much fun it can be.

But controlling the filter through which everybody sees everything is valuable and it's hard to get anyone in a position of power to give that up.

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