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The burden of Long Covid “so large as to be unfathomable”

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Re: The burden of Long Covid “so large as to be unfathomable”

#171

Post by thenerdhead »

monero-xmr wrote: post #28

There is a lack of hard scientific evidence definitively proving this. However you may know in your bones that this is real, from lived experience or from people you know. Please keep that in mind when you dismiss other things that lack definitive scientific evidence. We as humans seem to pick and choose which currently unverified things to believe and which to dismiss.

There is hard empirical evidence. Plenty of scientific evidence now coming out as well given its been a few years to research initial cohorts. But to wait to verify scientific evidence is just foolish when this is affecting a grand scale of human beings.

Re: The burden of Long Covid “so large as to be unfathomable”

#173

Post by thenerdhead »

mips_r4300i wrote: post #162

Post-viral sequelae have been poorly understood for many years. 1. It's hard to tie together the cause and later effects/symptoms. Did someone get a viral infection? Common cold? Flu? A bacterial infection? People who aren't familiar with this typically have just felt sick, and sometimes the trigger can be a subclinical infection they don't notice. 2. Conventional medicine is bad at acknowledging, researching, and tr…

This puts a spotlight on the problem and likely novel findings will come to help answer those who have suffered early on like Howard Bloom and his full recovery after over a decade being housebound.

> My advice if you have this is to be proactive. Nobody will fix this for you.

100%.

Re: The burden of Long Covid “so large as to be unfathomable”

#174

Post by thenerdhead »

Glench wrote: post #84

> Different patients experience different symptoms from a diverse set of symptoms associated with long Covid, which could mean potential treatments might only relate to a particular sub-group and "one drug or antiviral treatment might be asking too much". Between the different impacts on different people and the difficulties diagnosing, long Covid could represent an enormous blessing in terms of our scientific unders…

It has never been a better time for this to happen. Especially with modern medicine and the advancements of AI.

While I did suffer from LC(and probably still will if it relapses), I can also see the silver linings.

Re: The burden of Long Covid “so large as to be unfathomable”

#175

Post by Nanana909 »

cjbgkagh wrote: post #132
Nanana909 wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

99.999% of the population, including those who claim they have long COVID, do not know the words “persistent spike proteins” or “post COVID sequelae”. Therefore I assert you are incorrect, “long COVID” implies a “long case of COVID”. Similar to how no one would interpret “long marriage” to mean the after-effects of marriage. P.S. no I will not cite a source for the statistic nor will I cite one for the sky being blue…

Not sure what to say other than that you are flagrantly wrong.

> Long COVID is broadly defined as signs, symptoms, and conditions that continue or develop after initial COVID-19 infection.

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/long-term-effects/...

Emphasis on “Continue or develop”.

Re: The burden of Long Covid “so large as to be unfathomable”

#176

Post by eggy »

thenerdhead wrote: post #171
monero-xmr wrote: post #28

There is a lack of hard scientific evidence definitively proving this. However you may know in your bones that this is real, from lived experience or from people you know. Please keep that in mind when you dismiss other things that lack definitive scientific evidence. We as humans seem to pick and choose which currently unverified things to believe and which to dismiss.

There is hard empirical evidence. Plenty of scientific evidence now coming out as well given its been a few years to research initial cohorts. But to wait to verify scientific evidence is just foolish when this is affecting a grand scale of human beings.

Not denying a phenomenon here, so the "Long Covid" moniker doesn't irk me, but I think you hear more "Long Covid" than "Long Flu" because of the lockdowns, masking, school shutdowns, and ongoing culture wars. I also believe the societal measures taken in reaction to Covid has caused a lot of mental anguish and illness that could be part of the "Long Covid" syndrome or phenomenon. Unless a very acute or severe infection was experienced with possible organ or lung damage, I am guessing a lot is the zeitgeist and general malaise of post-Covid modern society.

Re: The burden of Long Covid “so large as to be unfathomable”

#177

Post by thenerdhead »

eggy wrote: post #176
thenerdhead wrote: post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is hard empirical evidence. Plenty of scientific evidence now coming out as well given its been a few years to research initial cohorts. But to wait to verify scientific evidence is just foolish when this is affecting a grand scale of human beings.

Not denying a phenomenon here, so the "Long Covid" moniker doesn't irk me, but I think you hear more "Long Covid" than "Long Flu" because of the lockdowns, masking, school shutdowns, and ongoing culture wars. I also believe the societal measures taken in reaction to Covid has caused a lot of mental anguish and illness that could be part of the "Long Covid" syndrome or phenomenon. Unless a very acute or severe infecti…

Here's more context as to why "long covid" became a term.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7539940/

Re: The burden of Long Covid “so large as to be unfathomable”

#178

Post by retrac »

Nanana909 wrote: post #170
retrac wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> So then why do we never talk about long flu? With both RSV and influenza, infection as a baby or toddler seems to increase the likelihood of asthma in later life. Do we talk about asthma? I think it is just so ordinary, an accepted part of life, and often not thought of in terms of being caused by an identifiable pathogen, that it's not really remarkable. Sort of like the fact that viral pneumonia is what kills the…

> With both RSV and influenza, infection as a baby or toddler seems to increase the likelihood of asthma in later life. Do we talk about asthma? I think this reinforces my point succinctly. It’s not “extended RSV” or “persistent influenza”, it’s asthma. COVID is a completely politicized term and dying on a hill to use it to describe symptoms people are stuck with after recovering from the acute disease, especially in…

Asthma induced by influenza would be about right, I think.

Much of this is novel, in having the ability to attribute to a specific viral cause, easily and cheaply and widely. This is new ground, new technology. Much of this was until recently, put up to non-specific viral infection, or even idiopathic.

We may start to re-conceive of asthma as different diseases if we could attribute the factors which went into causing a particular person's asthma. Flu-asthma, toxin-asthma, autoimmune-asthma, and COVID-asthma - and hybrid cases.

Re: The burden of Long Covid “so large as to be unfathomable”

#179

Post by Nanana909 »

bigbillheck wrote: post #134
Nanana909 wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> For COVID to cause severe illness in a few % -- enough to kill in rare cases -- but to not cause permanent lung or heart or kidney damage etc. in some significant percent who got very sick is implausible, even incoherent with all other theories about how viral diseases cause disease. So then why do we never talk about long flu? Long meningitis? I don’t think people are in disbelief COVID can cause long term damage…

> So then why do we never talk about long flu? https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2826837/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/34694344/ > Long meningitis? https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/27105658/ https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S01634... Just because you haven't seen it doesn't mean it doesn't exist. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7587542/

Your first article:

> Lingering prenatal effects

So not “long influenza”.

“Lingering effects of influenza”, which I stated obviously can exist. Would you associate the words “long marriage” with “lingering effects of marriage”?

Not a single one of your sources used “long X” terminology. I wonder why that is? Perhaps because “long X” in the English language refers to either a large length or a large duration of time. Not “after effects”.

I suspect the authors of each paper knew this and intentionally made sure not to imply it was a continued disease. But I suppose when something is politicized people find it hard to move on, such as the COVID era.

Re: The burden of Long Covid “so large as to be unfathomable”

#180

Post by Nanana909 »

retrac wrote: post #178
Nanana909 wrote: post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> With both RSV and influenza, infection as a baby or toddler seems to increase the likelihood of asthma in later life. Do we talk about asthma? I think this reinforces my point succinctly. It’s not “extended RSV” or “persistent influenza”, it’s asthma. COVID is a completely politicized term and dying on a hill to use it to describe symptoms people are stuck with after recovering from the acute disease, especially in…

Asthma induced by influenza would be about right, I think. Much of this is novel, in having the ability to attribute to a specific viral cause, easily and cheaply and widely. This is new ground, new technology. Much of this was until recently, put up to non-specific viral infection, or even idiopathic. We may start to re-conceive of asthma as different diseases if we could attribute the factors which went into causin…

Those interested in seeing funding devoted towards the study of this would do well do steer away from the political COVID branding. And if that’s too hard, call it “post COVID disease” or something.
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