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The burden of Long Covid “so large as to be unfathomable”

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Re: The burden of Long Covid “so large as to be unfathomable”

#161

I spent two years in bed, sometimes sleeping 16 hours a day and feeling like passing out just from walking 100m. All my tests were fine, all doctors thought it's just "anxiety" and basically ignored me until I had what looked like a stroke when they started taking it slightly more seriously. However, given all the tests were OK I went in circles from one doctor to another when I had better days, or being completely b…

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The moment you get it you'll understand why it does exist and its true nature, then good luck! You sound like those doctors in the 70s that thought the ME/CFS is "hysteria" because they thought they conquered all wisdom of the world.

Re: The burden of Long Covid “so large as to be unfathomable”

#162
Post-viral sequelae have been poorly understood for many years.

1. It's hard to tie together the cause and later effects/symptoms. Did someone get a viral infection? Common cold? Flu? A bacterial infection? People who aren't familiar with this typically have just felt sick, and sometimes the trigger can be a subclinical infection they don't notice.

2. Conventional medicine is bad at acknowledging, researching, and treating chronic conditions. Need an arm chopped off? Thyroid irradiated? No problem, surgery is excellent. Need pills to mask symptoms for years leaving the root cause untreated? Again, modern medicine has you covered. But if yout CBC panels are OK and you just have a malaise, nobody knows what to do.

3. Doctors have a somewhat justified hubris in that if something didn't exist in their med school, it must not exist at all. Sure, people come in with WebMD printouts and can claim all sorts of nonsense, but this leads to kneejerk defensiveness instead of an open mind.

I was infected in 2014 with some unknown, probably viral infection, which cause my thyroid to become inflamed for several months. This can also happen with mono. Anyway, this caused serious, wide ranging effects in my body, specifically causing autoimmunity. I now had serious food sensitivities I never had before. Not knowing this, I kept eating these foods and after 3 years I was so immensely fatigued and brain fogged and dizzy I could barely walk to the mail box.

After 6 doctors and $20k of diagnostics I finally some solutions. Recovery took years, increasing fast at first and slowing down later. My recovery amounted to cutting out several key foods/drinks out my diet and supplementing for a while to fix deficiencies caused by all this.

My advice if you have this is to be proactive. Nobody will fix this for you. Your doctors probably won't care, so find one that will. I found a doctor that would talk for 1-2 hours in an appointment and go over everything I was learning (yes, she was expensive) Read as much as you can, avoiding the innate human desire to find a magic bullet solution (there is none). Follow up on what your doctor told you and research the snot out of everything you heard.

Long COVID is the first time that cause and effect have been linked and known for so many people. Unfortunately it seems this is exactly what it will take to get taken seriously by the medical profession.

Re: The burden of Long Covid “so large as to be unfathomable”

#163

I spent two years in bed, sometimes sleeping 16 hours a day and feeling like passing out just from walking 100m. All my tests were fine, all doctors thought it's just "anxiety" and basically ignored me until I had what looked like a stroke when they started taking it slightly more seriously. However, given all the tests were OK I went in circles from one doctor to another when I had better days, or being completely b…

>I really think medical science gets many things wrong and knows only a small piece of puzzle That's certainly true, but medical science is well aware of the incredible benefits of physical exercise and the power of placebo.

It's sad medical professionals switch into "it's all in your head" routine when they can't explain something.

Re: The burden of Long Covid “so large as to be unfathomable”

#164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Would have been interesting if you had logged your biodata with an Oura ring, or so. I'm planning on doing something like this to get out of a kind of fatigue and sleep problems. I also have a rowing machine, incidentally.

I only tracked data with my smartwatch, my resting HR was basically going down from over 100 to under 60 in 1 month. Oxygen level was 95-99% all the time, but I never got ScvO2/SvO2 measured in the hospital (some say LC folks have only 20-40% SvO2 which is ICU level).

Which watch? They're differing quite a lot in accuracy. Heart rate is mostly fine, but I wouldn't necessarily trust Oxygen or sleep phase tracking. https://www.youtube.com/@TheQuantifiedScientist

Re: The burden of Long Covid “so large as to be unfathomable”

#165
post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It has ended dozens if not hundreds of elite athlete careers but also Olympians. Newspapers and specialty websites are full of these stories over the past few years but the public is either willfully ignorant or feel like denial is some kind of superpower. Has nothing to do with lack of fitness, anyone can get it. One big risk factor though to be clear is not the ONLY risk factor is literally genetics so that much is…

I think people are dismissive due to the expectation that if it really was that bad they would be hearing much more about it. The idea that something so bad affecting so many people could be largely ignored is incomprehensible to many people. It also didn’t help that ME/CFS was falsely maligned for many decades by horrible scientists in the US and UK.

> I think people are dismissive due to the expectation that if it really was that bad they would be hearing much more about it.

Most people are also still likely to not talk about it and hide it from everyone else.

Makes me worried about when we're going to see a strong 'backlash' against long COVID where people start getting very publicly getting busted for faking it.

If 90% of people hide the condition and try to tough it out and don't talk about it then it increases the public rate of fakers by 10x.

Re: The burden of Long Covid “so large as to be unfathomable”

#166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I only tracked data with my smartwatch, my resting HR was basically going down from over 100 to under 60 in 1 month. Oxygen level was 95-99% all the time, but I never got ScvO2/SvO2 measured in the hospital (some say LC folks have only 20-40% SvO2 which is ICU level).

Which watch? They're differing quite a lot in accuracy. Heart rate is mostly fine, but I wouldn't necessarily trust Oxygen or sleep phase tracking. https://www.youtube.com/@TheQuantifiedScientist

I think it was one of the Huawei watches.

Re: The burden of Long Covid “so large as to be unfathomable”

#167
Went through two bouts of long covid so far.

https://jondouglas.dev/long-covid/

In the vein of "The Death of Ivan Ilyich", I've come to appreciate life more through illness and suffering. I've also had challenges battling the three horsemen of boredom, loneliness, and helplessness like you would at any nursing home. But I have to say, the way the world has handled this issue was especially discouraging early on.

The medical system felt especially useless (and still feels that way), but it does seem that help is on the way and there's many treatments and funding in the pipeline for the next few years.

Also this is getting plenty of media attention and research is published almost everyday to convince those who think long covid is "all in your head" / psychosomatic.

I will live every day for the rest of my existence with deep empathy to those with unknown/invisible illnesses. For when people treated me like I was "fine" when I told them I was very sick, I felt just like Ivan Ilyich until he met Gerasim. I think we need more Gerasim type people in our lives who can see people suffering and help out knowing that someone will help them when it's their turn.

Re: The burden of Long Covid “so large as to be unfathomable”

#168
post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> For COVID to cause severe illness in a few % -- enough to kill in rare cases -- but to not cause permanent lung or heart or kidney damage etc. in some significant percent who got very sick is implausible, even incoherent with all other theories about how viral diseases cause disease. So then why do we never talk about long flu? Long meningitis? I don’t think people are in disbelief COVID can cause long term damage…

> So then why do we never talk about long flu? With both RSV and influenza, infection as a baby or toddler seems to increase the likelihood of asthma in later life. Do we talk about asthma? I think it is just so ordinary, an accepted part of life, and often not thought of in terms of being caused by an identifiable pathogen, that it's not really remarkable. Sort of like the fact that viral pneumonia is what kills the…

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Re: The burden of Long Covid “so large as to be unfathomable”

#169
post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The fact that mRNA based interventions have never before been deployed and as an individual it’s sensible to be cautious about using them until there is long term safety data?

Only if you believe that the risks of mRNA vaccination is higher than the (extra) risk of covid. In my estimation taking the vaccine is the prudent and cautious choice, and the scientific consensus has to be wrong by a large margin for your position to turn out to be more prudent.

If the scientific consensus is contradicting basic system component risk analysis, then yes we unfortunately have to ignore it. I too am deeply disturbed by this.

Re: The burden of Long Covid “so large as to be unfathomable”

#170
post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> For COVID to cause severe illness in a few % -- enough to kill in rare cases -- but to not cause permanent lung or heart or kidney damage etc. in some significant percent who got very sick is implausible, even incoherent with all other theories about how viral diseases cause disease. So then why do we never talk about long flu? Long meningitis? I don’t think people are in disbelief COVID can cause long term damage…

> So then why do we never talk about long flu? With both RSV and influenza, infection as a baby or toddler seems to increase the likelihood of asthma in later life. Do we talk about asthma? I think it is just so ordinary, an accepted part of life, and often not thought of in terms of being caused by an identifiable pathogen, that it's not really remarkable. Sort of like the fact that viral pneumonia is what kills the…

> With both RSV and influenza, infection as a baby or toddler seems to increase the likelihood of asthma in later life. Do we talk about asthma?

I think this reinforces my point succinctly. It’s not “extended RSV” or “persistent influenza”, it’s asthma.

COVID is a completely politicized term and dying on a hill to use it to describe symptoms people are stuck with after recovering from the acute disease, especially in a way that implies they’re still infected, is just - well you can see what it does.

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