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The burden of Long Covid “so large as to be unfathomable”

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31–40 of 234 posts

Re: The burden of Long Covid “so large as to be unfathomable”

#31

Still suffering from this myself. I used to train for hours a day nearly every day (BJJ/Calisthenics/KettleBells.) Totally obliterated my exercise capacity after I got Covid twice, first time acute symptoms lasted for 6 weeks, second time was shorter at 3 weeks. Years later and I'm still not the same. It hit hard.

I'm in the same boat.

My heart rate has never gone back to where it was and my breathing never returned to being fully "satiating".

Gone through the gamut of medical tests and everything is "normal".

Re: The burden of Long Covid “so large as to be unfathomable”

#32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For real? Seems to me like the brain damage and stuff from the infection is pretty simple to understand so that'd be pretty real. From a sorta minimum idea thing that seems like the most solid and easy to understand long-term damage right? Easy to test too, I reckon. Why would people think that isn't real?

Because Long Covid is not a scientific term in the way most people use it. I've had many family members refer to having long covid because they had a persistent stuffy nose for a few months. Prob virus related to some degree but the looseness of the language makes invites skepticism. Also some people also love being very vocal about any possible pathology they might have as a political position. Just invites more ske…

Thanks for the info I haven't come across it as the post I responded to said around here. Just missed the discussions I guess plus I'm kinda new. I understand not liking how a term gets used yeah, creates more misunderstandings and myths. I gotcha.

Re: The burden of Long Covid “so large as to be unfathomable”

#33
post #23

Hasn't there been lots of evidence in the past year suggesting that Covid was created in a lab? If we were to go down this path: 1. Covid created in a lab (not proven, but high enough probability to be considered a reasonable option): https://oversight.house.gov/release/covid-origins-hearing-wr... 2. If Covid was created in a lab, this de-facto means that Covid has potential as a biological weapon. I don't see how th…

No, there is little evidence suggesting it was created in a lab. There is evidence that it may have "leaked" from a lab that studies coronaviruses, but that doesn't mean it was engineered. The leading lab leak theory states that it could have been a sample collected from the wild, e.g. a bat colony, that was taken to the lab, and then someone at the lab was exposed.

US intelligence agencies have clearly stated that they do not believe that SARS-CoV2 was created by the Chinese government and that it should not be considered a biological weapon. While I understand why people doubt US intelligence sometimes, I can't see what incentive they would have to go easy on China in this case.

I also have no idea how you intend to hold a sovereign nation, let alone a borderline superpower, accountable for something that can't even be proved.

Re: The burden of Long Covid “so large as to be unfathomable”

#34
post #23

Hasn't there been lots of evidence in the past year suggesting that Covid was created in a lab? If we were to go down this path: 1. Covid created in a lab (not proven, but high enough probability to be considered a reasonable option): https://oversight.house.gov/release/covid-origins-hearing-wr... 2. If Covid was created in a lab, this de-facto means that Covid has potential as a biological weapon. I don't see how th…

> If Covid was created in a lab, this de-facto means that Covid is a biological weapon.

That's not even remotely true. I agree that lab-leak is something like 60-70% likely, but even the lab-leakers are in unanimous agreement that it was an accidental release of GoF research, not a biological weapon. However poorly justified this research was, it's not the same thing as a bioweapon agent.

> Can someone explain to me why there isn't an extremely aggressive campaign to pin down: a. Where it came from b. All parties involved in it's funding and creating c. Passing laws and sanctions to eliminate further continuation of said research.

Because this would make China really, really angry, and for better or worse, that's considered not an acceptable cost for the benefit. But note that, very quietly, there have been some tacit admissions that lab leak is probably real. The Biden administration recently cut all funding to the WIV, for instance, which I don't think can be read any other way, so you actually are getting the c) you asked for. I think in the long run GoF research is very much on the chopping block as well; that seems to be the way the discourse is trending.

Re: The burden of Long Covid “so large as to be unfathomable”

#35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For real? Seems to me like the brain damage and stuff from the infection is pretty simple to understand so that'd be pretty real. From a sorta minimum idea thing that seems like the most solid and easy to understand long-term damage right? Easy to test too, I reckon. Why would people think that isn't real?

Because Long Covid is not a scientific term in the way most people use it. I've had many family members refer to having long covid because they had a persistent stuffy nose for a few months. Prob virus related to some degree but the looseness of the language makes invites skepticism. Also some people also love being very vocal about any possible pathology they might have as a political position. Just invites more ske…

I'm kind of one of those people. I'm a medical layman and saying "long covid" is kind of a meme/joke. I know it's not real long covid as some people are battling much harsher consequences from having had covid.

But, what I'm trying to say in my layman way is, I feel like I get sick differently after having covid. It's more frequent and lasts way longer. I'm currently at the tail end of a ~4 week long "cold" during which it felt like I'd improve/regress each week and it varied from my being completely functional to having fairly bedridden days. It was all just a "common cold", I think; who knows I might have had covid again (I'm not getting tested each time I get sick any more). These "colds" have been happening roughly every 3-6 months the last couple years since I got covid. Prior to that, I'd get sick only about once a year and sometimes 2-3 times without getting sick. Duration of sickness previously was typically 3-5 days, very rarely ever >1 week. Not sure if it's related, but the time of year is off too. I almost never got sick in the summer months before. Where I live it's been above 100F most of the past several weeks and typically I get sick in shoulder season months (Nov-Dec / Feb-Mar for my locale).

Re: The burden of Long Covid “so large as to be unfathomable”

#36

Long COVID pretty much obliterated the career of a mentor of mine. She went from being a competitive athlete in her late sixties to a home-bound invalid in her early seventies. You know a health condition is grievous when it makes a mathematician give up lecturing.

It has ended dozens if not hundreds of elite athlete careers but also Olympians.

Newspapers and specialty websites are full of these stories over the past few years but the public is either willfully ignorant or feel like denial is some kind of superpower.

Has nothing to do with lack of fitness, anyone can get it.

One big risk factor though to be clear is not the ONLY risk factor is literally genetics so that much is unavoidable.

* https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-023-02269-2

Re: The burden of Long Covid “so large as to be unfathomable”

#37
post #12

> The best way to not get long Covid is to not get Covid, and the best way to not get Covid is to be well vaccinated and boosted and have a good level of antibodies to stop the virus getting in. I know people who got multiple jabs and have had Covid-19 several times already. These suggestions are useless. > in those breakthrough cases in the vaccinated people, your chance of long Covid is further reduced perhaps by a…

What risk do you perceive from being vaccinated that makes it at least as risky as covid and long covid? You feel like shit for a day, true.

Re: The burden of Long Covid “so large as to be unfathomable”

#39
post #23

Hasn't there been lots of evidence in the past year suggesting that Covid was created in a lab? If we were to go down this path: 1. Covid created in a lab (not proven, but high enough probability to be considered a reasonable option): https://oversight.house.gov/release/covid-origins-hearing-wr... 2. If Covid was created in a lab, this de-facto means that Covid has potential as a biological weapon. I don't see how th…

What would that even accomplish?

And no, even if it were created as part of vaccine or coronavirus research, that would not equate to it being a biological weapon. That's an absolutely unjustified leap. Do you know how virus research works? Clearly not. They still have smallpox viruses sitting around in labs. I don't know if there is any active research related to improving the smallpox vaccine, but if there were, and there were a release, in what way could you possibly classify vaccines as biological weapons?

But back to the original point: WHY? There is ample evidence that this particular lab had lax safety protocols that might have resulted in a leak of the virus. There is also evidence that similar viruses existed in the wild animal population of the area. They may or may not have been studying one of those viruses in the lab, but that alone doesn't prove where it first infected a human.

But say you have incontrovertible proof. What does that change?

People who died will remain dead. People with long COVID will remain ill. We can rattle sabers at China, but they're likely to continue to deny it was their fault. So what does happen? We can extrapolate from the past:

1. People of Chinese (or any east Asian) ancestry will be treated badly or even killed in twisted "revenge" fantasies of various idiots around the world.

2. The saber rattling could escalate to actual hot war, and more people would die.

3. Say I'm wrong and China does admit the lab screwed up. What then? They'll fire and/or execute people who were responsible. And...? It's not like they're going to pay compensation to everyone who lost a loved one around the world. They'll perform some political theater, and after a news cycle it will fade away.

I don't see an upside unless you're hoping for #3 and think that killing or jailing a few more people will somehow even the scales? Killing or jailing people for incompetence seems cruel and unusual to me. Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity.

Re: The burden of Long Covid “so large as to be unfathomable”

#40
post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think there are a couple of things going on: Long COVID is real, but I bet most people that think they have it don’t. On the other hand, I doubt long COVID is all that novel compared to what happens with other viruses as well. I think there’s some pushback because the media acts like long COVID is some terribly novel and huge thing, when neither are probably true. All that said I’m glad more research is happening o…

Agreed. I have a friend who has Myalgic Encephalomyelitis aka Chronic Fatigue Syndrome, which has destroyed her life, turning the most energetic person I knew into someone who cannot walk more than a block a day. Her ME was likely triggered by the H1N1 flu in 2009. It's too early to tell whether this is the same as long COVID, but it is certainly suggestive.

My first thought upon hearing about it was that long covid seemed like a rather general autoimmune disorder. But the researchers all seemed very hesitant to label it as such. Perhaps just because they haven't isolated which antibodies are being elevated, but also perhaps there is a compounding effect from organ damage? The impact of viral loads will some day be viewed as what shaped history and held us back from faster progress.
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