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A forthcoming collapse of the Atlantic meridional overturning circulation

nature.com

41–50 of 324 posts

Re: A forthcoming collapse of the Atlantic meridional overturning circulation

#41
post #17
post #11

Anyone else think that all these predictions are going to happen sooner rather than later in terms of the given prediction range? I can't help but think that a study focussing on a specific area like this one, antarctic sea ice, wildfire predictions etc must only be able to take so many variables into account and that second order effects, third order, fourth order and beyond from other climate subsystems are going t…

Oh absolutely. Environmental scientists are very conservative and anti-alarmist with their predictions, and every successive generation of derived data skews towards the more conservative end.

Satire?

Re: A forthcoming collapse of the Atlantic meridional overturning circulation

#42
post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Further in the paper "The mean of the bootstrapped estimates of the tipping time is 〈tc〉 = 2050, and the 95% confidence interval is 2025–2095."

Whoof. Those are some spooky error bars.

Especially since almost every "long term" problem seems to be happening in the much shorter term than was originally predicted. Not great!

Re: A forthcoming collapse of the Atlantic meridional overturning circulation

#44
post #11

Anyone else think that all these predictions are going to happen sooner rather than later in terms of the given prediction range? I can't help but think that a study focussing on a specific area like this one, antarctic sea ice, wildfire predictions etc must only be able to take so many variables into account and that second order effects, third order, fourth order and beyond from other climate subsystems are going t…

Yes the timeline for complete shift is before 2030. NYC weather is already temporarily altered each spring snd early summer with all the cold water from the Greenland melt, and that is just a slight shift away from there in the Gulf stream. When these shifts happen it's in about a dozen years. The last 8 years are the hottest in at least 150 years.

Re: A forthcoming collapse of the Atlantic meridional overturning circulation

#45
post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh absolutely. Environmental scientists are very conservative and anti-alarmist with their predictions, and every successive generation of derived data skews towards the more conservative end.

Satire?

No, this has been pretty well documented and reported.

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/climate-science-p...

Re: A forthcoming collapse of the Atlantic meridional overturning circulation

#46
post #3

> Predictions based on observations rely on detecting early-warning signals, primarily an increase in variance (loss of resilience) and increased autocorrelation (critical slowing down), which have recently been reported for the AMOC. Here we provide statistical significance and data-driven estimators for the time of tipping. We estimate a collapse of the AMOC to occur around mid-century under the current scenario of…

Ireland and Great Britain are at about the same latitude as Labrador in Canada, but benefit from heat transported across the North Atlantic from the Caribbean by warm water. Absent the current that is transporting that warm water, one would expect the GB climate to more closely resemble Labrador’s. In other words, much colder.

not gonna lie, a scenario where a big nasty effect of climate change pastes Europe first might make the powers that be wake up to the impending disaster faster. For the folks with the big money one death in Europe might be more shocking than 100 deaths in India.

Re: A forthcoming collapse of the Atlantic meridional overturning circulation

#47
post #19
post #11

Anyone else think that all these predictions are going to happen sooner rather than later in terms of the given prediction range? I can't help but think that a study focussing on a specific area like this one, antarctic sea ice, wildfire predictions etc must only be able to take so many variables into account and that second order effects, third order, fourth order and beyond from other climate subsystems are going t…

Yes. We're not sleepwalking to an uninhabitable dystopia, we're sprinting towards it. We may all be in for some serious problems in 5 to 10 years. I'm not a climate scientist, this is just an uninformed opinion, but everything I'm reading has me very worried.

There are challenges to overcome but thinking of the future as dystopia can be counterproductive.

Re: A forthcoming collapse of the Atlantic meridional overturning circulation

#48
One of the predictions related to global warming that seems to surprise people is that most of the predicted sea level rise is attributed to the thermal expansion of warmer sea water.

So when we think about major changes in how the ocean absorbs and distributes heat, we’re also thinking about how sea level will change in certain areas vs others. If the ocean starts storing a lot more heat around Cuba than Great Britain, Cuba will experience more sea level rise than Great Britain does.

Re: A forthcoming collapse of the Atlantic meridional overturning circulation

#49
post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh absolutely. Environmental scientists are very conservative and anti-alarmist with their predictions, and every successive generation of derived data skews towards the more conservative end.

Satire?

No, actually the truth.

The climate change "hype" comes from journalists and editors. The actual research papers are generally very conservative in their estimations, and we've been exceeding the predicted outcomes for decades without making any real changes to improve our situation.

Re: A forthcoming collapse of the Atlantic meridional overturning circulation

#50
I've got a background in this field and I am very surprised to see this published in Nature. The model presented is purely statistical with no representation of the underlying physics. When we are dealing with a phenomenon that is driven by well-understood physical laws (e.g. geophysical fluid dynamics, radiation physics etc) then these physical models are the most reliable basis for prediction.

When I say physical models here by the way I'm referring to physically-based mathematical models as well as numerical models.

It seems that the authors have done a good job in developing their model. My issue is with Nature deciding to publish it. If this paper was not published in Nature it would receive little attention within or without climate science - in fact many such statistical models are published each year without much comment. However, Nature have published a paper that I think many ocean scientists would feel draws dramatic conclusions from a weak basis but will now inevitably draw much more attention than more insightful papers.

MIT professor Carl Wunsch accused Nature in 2010 of near-tabloid science with a tendency towards sensational papers built on weak foundations. However, I've felt that Nature's choice of publications on climate in recent years has been high quality. This paper feels like a big step-down from that standard.

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