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Young people are flocking to astrology

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Re: Young people are flocking to astrology

#752

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Speaking of stereotypes, if anyone takes astrology seriously, I automatically assume they are not intelligent, irrational, and I find it impossible to take them seriously. I consider them beyond reason so I don't even try. If a person's logic and epistemology lead to him believing in astrology, it shows a deeper problem and I don't hope to have an intelligent discussion with them any more than I expect to have an int…

You can "tolerate" aliens? Alien life has a very high chance of existing - according to many scientists, more likely than it not existing. Alien intelligence less so, but still quite likely to exist. I find your take on people who believe in Astrology condescending. I know intelligent and accomplished people who believe in Astrology. The explanation is very simple: they simply didn't think it through and keep checkin…

I find it offensive to conflate the very real possibly and serious topic of Alien life existing with Astrology.

Re: Young people are flocking to astrology

#753
post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While I agree that astrology is complete nonsense, you're not likely to win many people over when you treat stereotyping (which you've described here) and racism as equivalent.

Your parent said "akin to racism". You're not likely to win many people over, when you treat "akin" and "equivalent" as equivalent.

Sure, "akin" isn't an exact synonym for "equivalent." Feel free to replace "equivalent" with "analogous to" if that bothers you; it doesn't really change my point.

Re: Young people are flocking to astrology

#754

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One of those world religions being the irrational belief in the power of science.

Not only science itself, but humanity being a grand progression of scientific progress leading to our year 2023.

You’re reading more than he wrote. Science is an abstraction, a model of our world that we use to make prediction. It is true that the model is not the world, but it is also true that we have made unquestionable progress in our models and understanding of the reality we inhabit. We just can predict and explain a lot more than we could a century ago.

Re: Young people are flocking to astrology

#755
post #627
post #381

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, I also do similar kind of judgement. I.e. if someone is seriously religious, flat earth believing or ghost worshiping etc, then I would just assume they... have many things to left learn. But often as I encountered it, some individual is also too cute to be treated rudely. This is a bit of dilemma, really. Because if you share what you've learned, then no matter how respectful you tried to make it look, they mi…

> So, the real question is, if a really cute girl that you like smiling in front of you, and she asks your "star type" (or "constellation"), what would you really do at that spot? That's an oxymoron because stupidity is never cute. If she appeared cute before saying that, she certainly wouldn't after.

> That's an oxymoron because stupidity is never cute.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pceDfPLf2hw

Note: This is not an endorsement. It is just a pedantic refutation of your claim.

Re: Young people are flocking to astrology

#756

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Speaking of stereotypes, if anyone takes astrology seriously, I automatically assume they are not intelligent, irrational, and I find it impossible to take them seriously. I consider them beyond reason so I don't even try. If a person's logic and epistemology lead to him believing in astrology, it shows a deeper problem and I don't hope to have an intelligent discussion with them any more than I expect to have an int…

I don't believe in astrology either, but frankly, this sort of zealous hyper-rationality is a great way to die alone. Like someone who's not into astrology will overhear you and the word that will get around will be "Don't invite that guy to parties, he is not fun." You will reap far better dividends from just taking people as they are and trying to find the best in them. Which is the most rational thing to do is it…

> Don't invite that guy to parties, he is not fun

I have been bored to death by flat earthers at parties before. If that’s their takeaway message, then so be it. There are many interesting people to meet everywhere anyway.

Re: Young people are flocking to astrology

#757

I have a pet theory that things like astrology, tarot, the I Ching, Myers Briggs, etc. are valuable (and therefore stick around) not because they have a supernatural or scientific ability to make correct predictions, but because they provide a useful framework for discussing topics. So for example, even if tarot doesn't give you supernatural insight, the discussion it generates with the card reader may allow you to r…

You're assuming here that there has to be "real" value at the root. This isn't really true. Astrology, Tarot, the I Ching, or any other kind of divination all serve the same purpose: To provide certainty where there is none . To measure the unknowable. People fear the unknown and risk, divination lets them feel like they have some certainty about the future. Myers Briggs, DISC, and all the other "personality tests" a…

> They provide no actual measurement of applicants, Myers-Briggs is especially easy to cheat.

Myers briggs aside, I take issue with this specific argument in any context, just because a dishonest party can cheat a test, doesn't mean the test itself is worthless. I can do a math test with a calculator without knowing how to even do math, (oh, put this symbol next to that symbol and hit the = key?) doesn't mean the test is worthless.

Re: Young people are flocking to astrology

#758
post #738

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s true, and I don’t mean to downplay your experiences. This is more of me trying to convince you that it’s okay to feel angry and hurt without it taking away from other peoples’ experiences. It doesn’t have to be a you-or-them phenomenon. All I’m saying is that it pervades womens’ lives more. They have to deal with it constantly, every day. If you have any trans friends, I’d encourage you to ask them about it, s…

> If you have any trans friends, I'd encourage you to ask them about it, since the issues are doubly magnified. This is like saying that blackface actors experience doubly-magnified racism, when they're actually just adding to the problem. For women who want to be men, it is typically rooted in wanting to escape the harsh societal impositions of femininity, rather than confronting it head-on. This is also why many wo…

and what do you know about trans people?

as you so eloquently show, nothing.

Like seriously, spend at least a little while understanding a topic before you talk about it. *shakehead

Re: Young people are flocking to astrology

#759

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I worked in various "alternative" industries in my youth. One day I was having an informal diner with people that, in another context, could have been business partners. One guy was making a killing with an astrology service by phone. He started with those text message based games, that were popular in the 2000'. Remember? "Send 'love' to this number to know if he loves you". And eventually created a full phone call…

>> "You have to see astrology as porn for women", he said. If that is the case, what is the pleasure they get out of it? Porn triggers the pleasure centers that sex triggers... but astrology, what does that trigger? Sense of security that you "know" your future after reading your horoscope? Or what? Did the guy have any theory about that?

> Sense of security that you "know" your future after reading your horoscope?

No, it's comfort in knowing that some(thing|one) else is controlling your destiny. It's not about knowing your future. It's about knowing that there exists a path you're being ushered along.

Re: Young people are flocking to astrology

#760

I had an argument with a girl the other day who was adamant she wanted to know my star sign. I said "you tell me" and after 10 guesses I finally told her. She then went on to tell me what I must like etc - most of which was complete bollocks obviously. I told her her beliefs were akin to racism. Just because of when I was born she thought it was acceptable not to bother to treat me as an individual but as automatical…

Speaking of stereotypes, if anyone takes astrology seriously, I automatically assume they are not intelligent, irrational, and I find it impossible to take them seriously. I consider them beyond reason so I don't even try. If a person's logic and epistemology lead to him believing in astrology, it shows a deeper problem and I don't hope to have an intelligent discussion with them any more than I expect to have an int…

I mean, I get what you're saying, but it's not totally unreasonable to me that your relative age compared to peers in your school grade cohort could lead to correlated personality traits. I would expect a tremendous amount of noise, but I wouldn't be shocked to see a signal in that.

Astrology sign is an information preserving transformation on relative age to within a couple months of precision.

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