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Young people are flocking to astrology

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Re: Young people are flocking to astrology

#651

Post by dooraven »

DriverDaily wrote: post #630
nradov wrote: post #603

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Myers Briggs seems so arbitrary . Why 4 dimensions instead of 3 or 5? And is there any reliable evidence that using it actually produces better outcomes?

As far as I know the Five Factor Model is a far more scientific measure than MBTI. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_Five_personality_traits - Repeatability - Not based on Jungian pseudoscience - Peer acceptance

Big 5 is accurate but hard to explain. MBTI is fairly easy to explain and honestly it's not like astrology where it is random, an INTP does act very differently than an ENFJ

Re: Young people are flocking to astrology

#652

Post by FishInTheWater »

detourdog wrote: post #646
FishInTheWater wrote: post #614

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're assuming here that there has to be "real" value at the root. This isn't really true. Astrology, Tarot, the I Ching, or any other kind of divination all serve the same purpose: To provide certainty where there is none . To measure the unknowable. People fear the unknown and risk, divination lets them feel like they have some certainty about the future. Myers Briggs, DISC, and all the other "personality tests" a…

All of theses old ideas are simply ways to look at yourself from the outside. Any value is the insight it provides to oneself.

The issue with them is that it's not simply "looking at oneself".

If you were using divination for that purposes then it's no issue. Harmless superstition is fine.

But things like personality tests and other pseudoscience see regular use in hiring and promotion. And that's just ridiculous, damaging for both "honest" applicants and the company, as such processes favour dishonest people.

Re: Young people are flocking to astrology

#653

Post by redandblack »

tome wrote: post #530
redandblack wrote: post #485

Clearly I am not young, but over the last say 5 years I have been visiting a specific astrologer and has been very useful - primarily for decision making, managing stress. It is like therapy with dos/dont's and checks against any of your immediate worries. It basically helps you work out a near-term plan, typically 12-18 months, and helps to manage when things do not go your way. In a abstract way, it fits to the fat…

> It is like therapy Then why not got to therapy?

good point. for me, the difference is the sense of time

A easy example is say I am looking for a job, and have sent out 200 applications, 4 phone calls, 2 interviews and still unemployed.

Therapist will obviously help you out and prepare you mentally- the astrologer typically will "inform" you that tour next 7-9 months are hard for you personally and it will work out if you do continue doing it plus some x,y,z things

Re: Young people are flocking to astrology

#654

Post by 2Gkashmiri »

mise_en_place wrote: post #121
2Gkashmiri wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Many Indian "Hindus" do that.... There are many many people who don't. The problem is, it doesn't actually solve anything and as you said, its just securing work for the incumbents. I live up north, in the valley of Kashmir which has historically been shielded from mainland Indian traditions and culture. https://upcomingkoshurmahraz.wordpress.com/ I started writing about my own efforts to get married so you can read…

Thanks for the link, always curious to hear other experiences from India. Stateside we don’t get much perspective outside of what NRIs do and the mainstream media which leads to a bubble of sorts.

i'd be very glad if i get thoughtful responses

Re: Young people are flocking to astrology

#655

Post by vacuity »

glimshe wrote: post #613
pedrosorio wrote: post #547

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> find them entertaining I also find them entertaining. That doesn’t mean I believe them. > The explanation is very simple: they simply didn't think it through Something I rely on to predict the future is the kind of thing I would want to think through. That’s particularly hard to believe of “intelligent people” when checking that it’s nonsense takes very little effort. There may be an education-intelligence gap that…

Intelligence is multi faceted. You can be an excellent lawyer yet not stop to think about whether Astrology is falsifiable and what were the results of experiments that tested it. It can be fun in the sense that it appears useful and uplifting. Not every intelligent and capable person is a rationalist. I'd say that normal people reflect little about truths, instead relying on feelings and word of mouth. It got us to…

In the US: Pizzagate? Jan 6 Capitol riot? I'm not sure the whole "go with your gut, bro" thing is working out. Tribalism, confirmation bias, fundamental attribution error, etc. are real obstacles to understanding each other and having a big world of content people.

Re: Young people are flocking to astrology

#656

Post by caditinpiscinam »

I see a lot of parallels between astrology and sports fandom. Sports team affiliation is pretty arbitrary and often based on where someone was born (which is out of their control). There's tons of lore, stereotypes, compatibilities, and rivalries between various teams (which is largely artificial). Sports fans care deeply about things that ultimately have little impact on their lives (does is really matter who wins the super bowl?). And of course, sports are a common interest for people to discuss and bond over.

I'm not into astrology, but I'm not judgemental of it either. To me, asking if someone "believes" in astrology would be like someone asking me if I "believe" in the sports teams I follow -- it's not the right question to ask.

Re: Young people are flocking to astrology

#658

Post by jprete »

FishInTheWater wrote: post #638
erehweb wrote: post #623

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The I Ching is very ambiguous and open to interpretation, as Philip K Dock shows in The Man in The High Castle, or you can try for yourself. Whatever else it's doing, it is not providing certainty.

That's the trick. It's about feelings of certainty, not actual measurable reproduceable predictions. Most long-lived divination methods are very vague. Anything providing concrete predictions is easily proven wrong and discredited, only the vague survives. But people rarely take ambiguous answers for what they are, and instead interpret them into something more certain. And this lets divination exploit all kinds of b…

Nitpick: The five-factor scale (extroversion, agreeableness, openness, conscientiousness, and neuroticism) both reproduces and makes good life predictions.

MBTI and most other personality tests unfortunately seem to be astrology for the scientifically oriented.

Re: Young people are flocking to astrology

#659

Post by andsoitis »

caeril wrote: post #560
4gotunameagain wrote: post #433

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because it is impossible to prove such thing. All arguments of this kind rely on some kind of shaky or dubious foundation.

Prove, no - but the best argument for a "God" is the simulation argument. Space and time is quantized at the planck scale, which strongly suggests that our known universe is a simulation. Simulation implies a simulator, which would by necessity be an omniscient "God". Obviously this God would bear no resemblance to any of the popular Abrahamic Gods. Nonetheless, anyone who subscribes to the simulation hypothesis cann…

> Space and time is quantized at the planck scale, which strongly suggests that our known universe is a simulation

My resources tell me that the simulation hypothesis stems from Nick Bostrom’s philosophical reasoning, not rooted in physics. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simulation_hypothesis

Re: Young people are flocking to astrology

#660

Post by Tainnor »

coffeefirst wrote: post #47
Tainnor wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think there's any value in astrology. The fact that people believed in it (and still do) for a very long time doesn't change that, as humanity has had many long-standing beliefs that turned out to be entirely wrong (e.g. geocentrism, that there was something particular about biochemistry that couldn't be recreated synthetically, aether, ...). The fact that it may serve a certain psychological function means t…

I think what you’re missing is how often people who get into this stuff are mostly just having fun. It goes in the same category as folklore and ghosts and fantasizing about colonizing Mars. If it were real it would very quickly stop being fun and become deadly serious business instead.

I believe I covered this when I admitted that people are not fully rational and so such things are perfectly understandable.
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