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Young people are flocking to astrology

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Re: Young people are flocking to astrology

#551

Post by jcranmer »

nirui wrote: post #413

> It’s the date that determines parts of her personality, her passions, her romantic interests and, to some degree, her life decisions. One day it came to be from a female colleague during a fun meeting. The vibe was too good to be disturbed, so I just skipped all birthday hoops and told her my star sign is Orion, then I asked her to search online if she wanted to know the attributes. My fellow nerds, remember, we ha…

> My fellow nerds, remember, we have a whole 88 IAU designated constellations, and they only got...like 12?? We can win this war and teach em some real astronomy.

If you're going to criticize astrology on astronomical grounds, you should at least learn enough of the astronomical basis of astrology to understand how to criticize it.

In this case, there's 12 astrological signs because the ecliptic passes through 12 constellations. (Actually, there's an interesting discussion about Ophiuchus, but this is where it's helpful to know that the constellations aren't well-fixed in divided space, IAU's process of doing so notwithstanding, and for astrological purposes, the ecliptic is instead divided into 12 equal-sized regions, each one labeled with a constellation)

Re: Young people are flocking to astrology

#552

Post by skrblr »

throw0101a wrote: post #417
varjag wrote: post #398

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I feel it's more of a personal background issue. Do you really have objection with planets effects on personality but at the same time feel turning water into wine is plausible in the slightest? To a raised atheist all religions are not far removed from belief in Santa Claus. But to someone with religious people in the family cutting them off may come not as natural as of strangers with astrology brain.

Or how about the sun dancing around the sky? * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miracle_of_the_Sun

On the page you have linked, there is a section titled "Skeptical explanations," which contains explanations of the event that are both plausible and satisfying. If you stare at the sun for a while you're going to see some weird stuff. Don't try it at home.

Re: Young people are flocking to astrology

#553

Post by varjag »

lo_zamoyski wrote: post #544
varjag wrote: post #345

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is no qualitative difference between belief in astrology and any of the world's religions. Not saying you're not entitled in disregarding astrology believers but the cut-off point is completely arbitrary and dare I say irrational.

That is simply false. The first problem is the word "religion", which, in common usage, is as if we were talking about different flavors of ice cream, and the atheist or "unbeliever" is some version of someone who simply doesn't like ice cream. Man is a religious animal in the sense that, as a rational animal, he must worship something he takes to be the highest good. The question is never "do I worship something" bu…

Astrology makes its predictions in a vague and personally flattering way as to overwhelm critical facilities. This is not very different in how religion uses the language of threats and social coercion to deliver doctrine over one's senses. In both cases it's a defeat of rationality (and sorry I dismiss your whole first paragraph as sophistry).

> (FWIW, the Catholic Church rejects astrology, not as some "competing" doctrine, but as a pseudo-science and a superstition [0].)

Russian Orthodox church also rejects astrology as a superstition, or rather manifestation of paganism which is a competing doctrine. It also blesses missiles with holy water.

Re: Young people are flocking to astrology

#554

Post by executesorder66 »

uoaei wrote: post #145
figital wrote: post #63

There are epigenetic markers which can identify the season or perhaps even month you were born. If you might think there is a link between personality and birth order and that perhaps metaphor is useful in storytelling or group dynamics … then one could loosely link these concepts together and consider it more than something like a party trick.

I've always had the suspicion this was partly the case. If you're born in August or September when the sun is out for a long time and everyone's jovially enjoying social events during the first few months of your life, of course you'll be more outgoing and positive and active!

If that were true there would be a 50/50 split between extroverts/introverts. (Or shy/outgoing, however you want to define it)

But there are statistically more extroverts than introverts, so this is empirically wrong.

Re: Young people are flocking to astrology

#555

Post by data-ottawa »

MassiveOwl wrote: post #334
nprateem wrote: post #66

I had an argument with a girl the other day who was adamant she wanted to know my star sign. I said "you tell me" and after 10 guesses I finally told her. She then went on to tell me what I must like etc - most of which was complete bollocks obviously. I told her her beliefs were akin to racism. Just because of when I was born she thought it was acceptable not to bother to treat me as an individual but as automatical…

I never reveal it at work, there are morons out there that have opinions like "I'm starsign x, and if you're y, then we won't get along". It's so frustrating

Recently my wife and I looked up our signs. I guess we aren’t compatible at all! Someone should have told us a decade ago and saved us from 10 years and counting of happiness.

They’re kinda fun but I hope people aren’t making big decisions out of them.

Re: Young people are flocking to astrology

#556

Post by paganel »

machina_ex_deus wrote: post #303
nprateem wrote: post #66

I had an argument with a girl the other day who was adamant she wanted to know my star sign. I said "you tell me" and after 10 guesses I finally told her. She then went on to tell me what I must like etc - most of which was complete bollocks obviously. I told her her beliefs were akin to racism. Just because of when I was born she thought it was acceptable not to bother to treat me as an individual but as automatical…

Speaking of stereotypes, if anyone takes astrology seriously, I automatically assume they are not intelligent, irrational, and I find it impossible to take them seriously. I consider them beyond reason so I don't even try. If a person's logic and epistemology lead to him believing in astrology, it shows a deeper problem and I don't hope to have an intelligent discussion with them any more than I expect to have an int…

> I automatically assume they are not intelligent, irrational,

You sound like a Taurus.

Let people enjoy things, the general socio-economic situation is already as shitty as one could imagine, asking people to be rational 100% of the time, with no beliefs, no nothing, is just a sign of socio-economic privilege.

Re: Young people are flocking to astrology

#557

Post by XajniN »

clarionbell wrote: post #238

Atheists need to confront the fact that they have won. In most of the Europe, including the east and in Northern America, traditional religions have crumbled under almost three centuries of secularist onslaught. Major Christian denominations, as well as Judaism, have decreased in relevance and power, to the point when even politicians nominally belonging in these groups actively work against their orthodoxy. Saying y…

While it is (probably) true that the world is less religious than ever, there are only 3-4 countries in the world where atheists are majority. And they are small countries.

Re: Young people are flocking to astrology

#558

Post by donatj »

permo-w wrote: post #408
donatj wrote: post #97

The number of people in my life who have recently taken to astrology and started buying "healing" crystals is frankly disheartening. You try to argue with them they just call you toxic. I suspect it's a social virus.

I get given the crystals as gifts sometimes. the healing element is obviously complete nonsense, but they're aesthetically pleasing. they're also a potentially massively profitable business venture if you have easy access to a lot of credulous people, which certainly facilitates their spread >I suspect it's a social virus you say this as if this is different to any other idea or meme or brand

> you say this as if this is different to any other idea or meme or brand

I mean it is different, in that it flies entirely in the face of reason. What concerns me is that I've seen otherwise reasonable people fall for this.

Re: Young people are flocking to astrology

#559

Post by jb1991 »

confidantlake wrote: post #516
jb1991 wrote: post #404

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I automatically assume they are not intelligent, irrational, and I find it impossible to take them seriously There are a lot of people who are highly regarded in history but who also believed in astrology, so you shouldn't be too hard on it. Do you feel similarly about people who believe in various religions? These people believed in astrology to varying degrees: Winston Churchill J.P. Morgan Nancy Reagan Theodore…

One of those people is not like the others.

It’s true, Nancy is the only woman in the group.

Re: Young people are flocking to astrology

#560

Post by caeril »

4gotunameagain wrote: post #433
rcme wrote: post #430

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How is this not bigger news? He actually proved God exists???

Because it is impossible to prove such thing. All arguments of this kind rely on some kind of shaky or dubious foundation.

Prove, no - but the best argument for a "God" is the simulation argument. Space and time is quantized at the planck scale, which strongly suggests that our known universe is a simulation. Simulation implies a simulator, which would by necessity be an omniscient "God".

Obviously this God would bear no resemblance to any of the popular Abrahamic Gods.

Nonetheless, anyone who subscribes to the simulation hypothesis cannot realistically call themselves an Atheist, by definition.

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