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Young people are flocking to astrology

washingtonpost.com

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Re: Young people are flocking to astrology

#511

Post by varjag »

ndsipa_pomu wrote: post #503
varjag wrote: post #480

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Flag burning is a great example in fact: the outrage simply never reaches the levels it is with holy text burnings. Not to stone-the-tourists, burn-the-embassy levels of outrage: possibly (speculating here) because flag burning does not assault one's identity in a way similar to demonstrating the futility of one's beliefs. If we get to the punishments, things were clearly handed swiftly in the Old Testament. The Bibl…

> And come on, we know holy texts are full of things which are clearly wrong, in exactly the same way astrology is. The temptation to gloss over them as ornamental bits is huge, but to believers they are doctrinal. I can't think of any precise statements that are clear enough to be proved true or false. Usually holy texts have vague enough language that it's very much a case of interpretation. e.g. The Genesis creati…

Walking on water (or parting it at will) is rather unambiguous. The whole resurrection thing also would be mocked as taking Walking Dead seriously if not most people grew up seeing that believing this is acceptable.

Re: Young people are flocking to astrology

#512

Post by Tyr42 »

VoodooJuJu wrote: post #440
nprateem wrote: post #66

I had an argument with a girl the other day who was adamant she wanted to know my star sign. I said "you tell me" and after 10 guesses I finally told her. She then went on to tell me what I must like etc - most of which was complete bollocks obviously. I told her her beliefs were akin to racism. Just because of when I was born she thought it was acceptable not to bother to treat me as an individual but as automatical…

Dude, lighten up. She was playing a game with you, probably flirting. And you didn't play the game very well. Mysticism is fun, aesthetic, and filled with more questions than answers. Play the game some time, you might enjoy it. I also can't believe you actually found a way to weasel racism into the conversation. It's all so tiresome.

Lol my wife intentionally threw a astrology question in the dating app as a filter. I passed, clearly, and I haven't heard her talk about them much since.

Re: Young people are flocking to astrology

#513

Post by Alex3917 »

vhcr wrote: post #170
luc4sdreyer wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't want to support this idea because it goes against my worldview as an atheist from a very conservative society. I grew up on Hitchens and Dawkins. But the YouGov poll [1] that the WaPo article is based seems to support this idea: 30% of Agnostics answered yes to the following question: "Do you believe in astrology, or that the position of the stars and planets influence people’s lives?" [1]: https://today.youg…

Maybe I'm reading it too literally, but I think the question is just badly formulated. Of course the position of the stars and planets influence people's lives, that's called the seasons. I think the same when they ask people if they think dinosaurs co-existed with humans, of course the answer is yes, as birds are dinosaurs.

> Maybe I'm reading it too literally, but I think the question is just badly formulated.

It's not. The definition of astrology is literally the study of how bodies in space affect life on earth.

And if you don't believe in astrology, how exactly do you explain tides?

Re: Young people are flocking to astrology

#514

Post by ndsipa_pomu »

xvedejas wrote: post #476
ndsipa_pomu wrote: post #463

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can't think of any religions that make any clear predictions, so they're not even wrong (as opposed to astrology which is clearly wrong). So-called punishments are typically enacted in some other realm (e.g. after-life, rebirth into a lower form etc) which leads to some experimental problems in verifying the claims. I disagree about your interpretation of burning of religious books - surely that's more to do with p…

In college a Christian friend readily gave "evidence" of predictions in the bible as reason why he believes that religion. I think a lot of religious people do think there are clear predictions. I wish I remembered his examples (which I found uninteresting at the time) — I think one was a prediction of an invasion of Tyre?

The problem with a lot of historical predictions is that they were too vague to be useful i.e. could someone armed with a bible have known enough about an invasion of Tyre to make a bet with someone before it happened? e.g. I bet they get invaded in the next two weeks.

Predictions of that nature are usually just re-interpretations based on knowledge after the fact.

Re: Young people are flocking to astrology

#515

Post by commonlisp94 »

rsynnott wrote: post #290
seer wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As the saying goes, “all models are wrong, some models are useful” While the astrology “model” is obviously wrong, it must have been useful to someone at sometime for it to have gained such a popularity. Like the “flat earth model” is actually extremely useful if you don’t intend (can’t) travel significant distances - gives you a coordinate system, maps and ways to predict where you’re going to be tomorrow if you tra…

> While the astrology “model” is obviously wrong, it must have been useful to someone at sometime for it to have gained such a popularity. I mean, this seems like a weird conclusion. People like believing in stuff, so they believe in stuff; arguably the nature of the stuff is irrelevant. Astrology is just one of thousands of religious/pseudo-religious systems. Romans preferred to do their divination through the study…

> thousands of religious/pseudo-religious systems.

I'll double down. Yes, I think all of these that have been practiced by large groups of people and demographics have had some utility of some kind. Their explanations for why they work may be completely wrong.

> divination through the study of entrails and birdwatching;

Note that this poster argued the value of astrology indirectly. It's not the stars, it's the value of thinking about personality.

One explanation of this is that entrails are a kind of canvas for a Rorschach test that allows the individual to examine their thoughts. Or perhaps just making time to examine the entrails gives them time to ponder in a quiet environment.

I'll give one more example which is divination rods, demonstrated to not be able to find water in controlled experiments. However, the current explanation for their usefulness is that it gives the user an opportunity to observe natural clues that suggest where water is.

Not a lot of people are emotionally invested in divination rods. It's safe to speak poorly of them and just suggest more direction tools. But in cases where many people derive meaning from it, I think it's best not to disparage.

Re: Young people are flocking to astrology

#516

Post by confidantlake »

jb1991 wrote: post #404
machina_ex_deus wrote: post #303

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Speaking of stereotypes, if anyone takes astrology seriously, I automatically assume they are not intelligent, irrational, and I find it impossible to take them seriously. I consider them beyond reason so I don't even try. If a person's logic and epistemology lead to him believing in astrology, it shows a deeper problem and I don't hope to have an intelligent discussion with them any more than I expect to have an int…

> I automatically assume they are not intelligent, irrational, and I find it impossible to take them seriously There are a lot of people who are highly regarded in history but who also believed in astrology, so you shouldn't be too hard on it. Do you feel similarly about people who believe in various religions? These people believed in astrology to varying degrees: Winston Churchill J.P. Morgan Nancy Reagan Theodore…

One of those people is not like the others.

Re: Young people are flocking to astrology

#517

Post by taylorius »

nprateem wrote: post #66

I had an argument with a girl the other day who was adamant she wanted to know my star sign. I said "you tell me" and after 10 guesses I finally told her. She then went on to tell me what I must like etc - most of which was complete bollocks obviously. I told her her beliefs were akin to racism. Just because of when I was born she thought it was acceptable not to bother to treat me as an individual but as automatical…

"I told her her beliefs were akin to racism."

Oh I like that one. Inferring personality traits based on where someone was born - "Racism". Inferring personality traits based on when someone was born - "Astrology".

"but she couldn't see the issue."

What a surprise...

Re: Young people are flocking to astrology

#518

Post by civilitty »

sillysaurusx wrote: post #410
simbolit wrote: post #367

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What the h*ll do you know about my life? Nothing.

That’s true, and I don’t mean to downplay your experiences. This is more of me trying to convince you that it’s okay to feel angry and hurt without it taking away from other peoples’ experiences. It doesn’t have to be a you-or-them phenomenon. All I’m saying is that it pervades womens’ lives more. They have to deal with it constantly, every day. If you have any trans friends, I’d encourage you to ask them about it, s…

This is the same kind of sexist nonsense that leads to double standards in everything from nursing and teaching to domestic abuse treatment.

Men have just as many body issues as women because they’re human and if you think it’s any easier for men then you’ve been living under a rock.

Re: Young people are flocking to astrology

#519

Post by XajniN »

XorNot wrote: post #129
luc4sdreyer wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't want to support this idea because it goes against my worldview as an atheist from a very conservative society. I grew up on Hitchens and Dawkins. But the YouGov poll [1] that the WaPo article is based seems to support this idea: 30% of Agnostics answered yes to the following question: "Do you believe in astrology, or that the position of the stars and planets influence people’s lives?" [1]: https://today.youg…

Agnostic isn't a consistent belief position though: if you claim you don't know if a higher power exists, the question is which one and how is the impact of this different to being an atheist. So that bucket collecting random other beliefs isn't too surprising.

Agnostic is just a pussy version of atheist.

Re: Young people are flocking to astrology

#520

Post by commonlisp94 »

oxfordmale wrote: post #207
seer wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As the saying goes, “all models are wrong, some models are useful” While the astrology “model” is obviously wrong, it must have been useful to someone at sometime for it to have gained such a popularity. Like the “flat earth model” is actually extremely useful if you don’t intend (can’t) travel significant distances - gives you a coordinate system, maps and ways to predict where you’re going to be tomorrow if you tra…

It is an useful filter to reduce the pool of eligible candidates when dating, even if it is random. It should also be seen in context. Certain celestial bodies (moon and the sun) have a massive impact on your life on earth. It is easy to see why people would interpolate this to other celestial bodies.

> useful filter

I guess it is useful to know when someone can't entertain hypotheticals, make light conversation, lacks sensitivity about other's world view, and is allergic to beliefs which are not promoted by large organizations.

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