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Young people are flocking to astrology

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Re: Young people are flocking to astrology

#621

Post by woodruffw »

lo_zamoyski wrote: post #576

Increased interest in astrology has been noted before in societies with declining traditional religious belief and greater feelings of uncertainty. Whereas a Christian would leave his concerns about things out of his control with God, and a stoic might simply accept his powerlessness, the anxious remainder look for other ways of trying to cope. Astrology has a track record of filling this void with its fatalism, and…

“People like games that offer low-stakes predictions about their personality” has both more explanatory power and is much more parsimonious than the explanation you’ve presented.

Unless we’re prepared to consider consuming Cosmopolitan an “occult practice” as well, of course.

Re: Young people are flocking to astrology

#622

Post by danjoredd »

That is something I noticed on dating apps when I still used them. Star signs seemed to be a big part of what a lot of people were looking for, despite the fact that it hasn't been accepted in any way for centuries. Normally I would just accept it as just a fad, but then people started saying they weren't interested in "x" sign or "y" sign because it is "incompatible."

To be fair, at least that makes it easy to filter out the crazies

Re: Young people are flocking to astrology

#623

Post by erehweb »

FishInTheWater wrote: post #614
harimau777 wrote: post #575

I have a pet theory that things like astrology, tarot, the I Ching, Myers Briggs, etc. are valuable (and therefore stick around) not because they have a supernatural or scientific ability to make correct predictions, but because they provide a useful framework for discussing topics. So for example, even if tarot doesn't give you supernatural insight, the discussion it generates with the card reader may allow you to r…

You're assuming here that there has to be "real" value at the root. This isn't really true. Astrology, Tarot, the I Ching, or any other kind of divination all serve the same purpose: To provide certainty where there is none . To measure the unknowable. People fear the unknown and risk, divination lets them feel like they have some certainty about the future. Myers Briggs, DISC, and all the other "personality tests" a…

The I Ching is very ambiguous and open to interpretation, as Philip K Dock shows in The Man in The High Castle, or you can try for yourself. Whatever else it's doing, it is not providing certainty.

Re: Young people are flocking to astrology

#624

Post by vacuity »

caeril wrote: post #560
4gotunameagain wrote: post #433

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because it is impossible to prove such thing. All arguments of this kind rely on some kind of shaky or dubious foundation.

Prove, no - but the best argument for a "God" is the simulation argument. Space and time is quantized at the planck scale, which strongly suggests that our known universe is a simulation. Simulation implies a simulator, which would by necessity be an omniscient "God". Obviously this God would bear no resemblance to any of the popular Abrahamic Gods. Nonetheless, anyone who subscribes to the simulation hypothesis cann…

> Space and time is quantized at the planck scale, which strongly suggests that our known universe is a simulation.

I don't get the reasoning for this part. It seems analogous to, but even more absurd than looking at abstract art and observing that the artist had pneumonia.

Re: Young people are flocking to astrology

#625

Post by ecshafer »

anon-3988 wrote: post #155
keiferski wrote: post #56

One of my favorite philosophy books is A Secular Age by Charles Taylor. It has a lot of interesting ideas, but a key one is that the “subtraction thesis” of secularity is wrong. By this, he means the narrative that secular society today simply “subtracted” religious beliefs and behaviors of yesteryear. Instead, these things have just morphed into different forms, with astrology being a prime example. It can be unders…

This is why I think that it is perhaps beneficial to not completely remove religion, but replace it with something that is more aligned to the 21st century. Let's be honest, humans are very flawed and prone to succumb to religious thinking; regardless of how smart/dumb you are. Superstitious thinking can arise from simple day to day observation. So it is much better to fill in the void with something dull like "do go…

Thankfully you are here to dictate what is and isn't an acceptable 21st century belief.

Re: Young people are flocking to astrology

#626

Post by harimau777 »

FishInTheWater wrote: post #614
harimau777 wrote: post #575

I have a pet theory that things like astrology, tarot, the I Ching, Myers Briggs, etc. are valuable (and therefore stick around) not because they have a supernatural or scientific ability to make correct predictions, but because they provide a useful framework for discussing topics. So for example, even if tarot doesn't give you supernatural insight, the discussion it generates with the card reader may allow you to r…

You're assuming here that there has to be "real" value at the root. This isn't really true. Astrology, Tarot, the I Ching, or any other kind of divination all serve the same purpose: To provide certainty where there is none . To measure the unknowable. People fear the unknown and risk, divination lets them feel like they have some certainty about the future. Myers Briggs, DISC, and all the other "personality tests" a…

That's reasonable.

As I see it, even assuaging fear of the unknown seems like it could be a valuable benefit. Especially if freedom from fear helps someone to make better decisions based on the information that they have.

Re: Young people are flocking to astrology

#627

Post by rollo »

nirui wrote: post #381
machina_ex_deus wrote: post #303

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Speaking of stereotypes, if anyone takes astrology seriously, I automatically assume they are not intelligent, irrational, and I find it impossible to take them seriously. I consider them beyond reason so I don't even try. If a person's logic and epistemology lead to him believing in astrology, it shows a deeper problem and I don't hope to have an intelligent discussion with them any more than I expect to have an int…

Well, I also do similar kind of judgement. I.e. if someone is seriously religious, flat earth believing or ghost worshiping etc, then I would just assume they... have many things to left learn. But often as I encountered it, some individual is also too cute to be treated rudely. This is a bit of dilemma, really. Because if you share what you've learned, then no matter how respectful you tried to make it look, they mi…

> So, the real question is, if a really cute girl that you like smiling in front of you, and she asks your "star type" (or "constellation"), what would you really do at that spot?

That's an oxymoron because stupidity is never cute. If she appeared cute before saying that, she certainly wouldn't after.

Re: Young people are flocking to astrology

#628

Post by maskedinvader »

Astrology originated with astronomy and then parted ways, in the old days people relied on astrologers to predict when spring would arrive or winter will come, once astronomy separated from astrology, some people just continued to believe the astrologers even though we have astronomers today. Sigh.

Re: Young people are flocking to astrology

#629

Post by simonw »

harimau777 wrote: post #575

I have a pet theory that things like astrology, tarot, the I Ching, Myers Briggs, etc. are valuable (and therefore stick around) not because they have a supernatural or scientific ability to make correct predictions, but because they provide a useful framework for discussing topics. So for example, even if tarot doesn't give you supernatural insight, the discussion it generates with the card reader may allow you to r…

I used this exact argument a few years at a corporate team building exercise with one of those Myers Briggs-adjacent personality frameworks.

"Oh, I get it now: it's like astrology! Scientifically meaningless, but it does give us an opportunity to talk about how we have different preferences for how we work and communicate."

The facilitator didn't seem too impressed by that.

Re: Young people are flocking to astrology

#630

Post by DriverDaily »

nradov wrote: post #603
jncfhnb wrote: post #590

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s a good point but it’s not equal. Myers Briggs is nice a framework. You can just look at the axes of personality and use them to structure a claim about where you land. The test is not the important bit. I think many people have not considered the dimensions of personality that it proposes. Astrology not so much. You can’t describe yourself as a linear combination of different signs or at least, you’re not meant…

Myers Briggs seems so arbitrary . Why 4 dimensions instead of 3 or 5? And is there any reliable evidence that using it actually produces better outcomes?

As far as I know the Five Factor Model is a far more scientific measure than MBTI.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_Five_personality_traits

- Repeatability

- Not based on Jungian pseudoscience

- Peer acceptance

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