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Apple says it'll remove iMessage and FaceTime in UK rather than break encryption

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Re: Apple says it'll remove iMessage and FaceTime in UK rather than break encryption

#631

Post by abigail95 »

zarzavat wrote: post #292
paxys wrote: post #207

The same Apple that lets the CCP operate its entire App Store in China? It's easy to criticize a government when you know there will be no retaliation. To judge a company's true stance on such issues see how they behave when there's a prospect of real financial loss.

The UK and China are not comparable. China is the worlds most populous country (for now). The UK has a population of under 70m. China is a totalitarian regime where even an imperfect freedom is preferable to no freedom at all. The UK is a democratic country which should be upholding the right to privacy. If Apple weakens crypto for the UK, it affects people in other countries as well. iMessage is not exactly popular…

No, the UK is a democratic country that is voting to reduce privacy.

A massive company in a foreign country affecting the laws of your own is anti-democratic.

Democracy doesn't mean privacy.

Re: Apple says it'll remove iMessage and FaceTime in UK rather than break encryption

#632

Post by nonameiguess »

ashton314 wrote: post #553
hiatus wrote: post #506

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's crazy that we allow this at all. The government can't observe clandestine conversations that occur in person, does that mean they can mandate us to carry a government recording device? That people don't equally balk at requests to encumber encryption is baffling.

I like this vein of argument: assume that it is good that the government be able to snoop on your text messages. Why not in-person conversations as well? OK, let's make it so everything you say gets recorded. Eesh.

I don't believe encryption should have intentional backdoors, but more because of the technical impossibility of doing this without introducing security risk. Your analogy doesn't really work, because what governments are arguing they should be able to do is break encryption and snoop only when given a warrant. They can snoop on in-person conversations when they get a warrant and the general public doesn't oppose that, even though they would not want to carry 24/7 recording devices that snooped on every conversation even in the absence of probable cause to be suspected of a criminal conspiracy.

Re: Apple says it'll remove iMessage and FaceTime in UK rather than break encryption

#633

Post by guy98238710 »

JKCalhoun wrote: post #320
mihaaly wrote: post #123

I wonder why the UK legislators not preparing a new regulation mandating every keys to every door and safe having a bypass mechanism for government officials. Behind every door and every locked place there could be child pornography and illicit materials hidden!! Every house, every hotel safe are suspects! Criminal oversight, criminal oversight! (and if they think their reasoning for backdoors into online chat and co…

I'll play Devil's Advocate (because I enjoy throwing myself into the fray — especially when arguing against a point I actually agree with). No one is mass-sharing their safe of child-porn worldwide with thousands of other child-porn voyeurs. The internet and its ubiquitous accessibility combined with digital image file formats has changed the landscape for those that would fight these heinous crimes. It is indeed a n…

In order to distribute illegal material, you have to go public with it, i.e. contact strangers. One of those strangers is going to be a police agent or a snitch seeking favors from the police.

Sure you could limit yourself to known contacts, but that wouldn't make you rich nor would it create self-sustaining network.

Re: Apple says it'll remove iMessage and FaceTime in UK rather than break encryption

#634

Post by jonhohle »

onlyrealcuzzo wrote: post #501
vbo wrote: post #419

I feel we've been collectively losing the battle to keep our conversations private. The anti-encryption laws are likely vocally opposed only by a minority, while the majority believes they had no privacy to begin with and governments can read your messages at a whim. And perhaps that's true to some extent. But since most people believe the battle is lost, moreso that this has always been the status quo, then any batt…

> The anti-encryption laws are likely vocally opposed only by a minority, while the majority believes they had no privacy to begin with and governments can read your messages at a whim Traditionally, couldn't they with texts? And with all the major social media players? Isn't stuff like Signal they can't track relatively new and getting outlawed in many places?

In terms of human history, easily eavesdroppable communication is relatively new, mass eavesdroppable communication even more. I’d like to believe we’re reverting back to the mean - similar privacy to in person conversation but now over long distant.

Re: Apple says it'll remove iMessage and FaceTime in UK rather than break encryption

#635

Post by gjsman-1000 »

tsunamifury wrote: post #604
pretext-1 wrote: post #259

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Source? IIRC Apple was hosting data from Chinese citizens in China to comply with regulation but still keeping encryption keys outside of China.

They gave it over. Apple does not care about privacy the way it has trained American consumer to think it does.

Well, to be fair, the alternative is to simply leave China entirely. Considering how much malware and spyware the average Chinese phone has... Better a compromised iPhone than some of those things.

Re: Apple says it'll remove iMessage and FaceTime in UK rather than break encryption

#637

Post by mensetmanusman »

hiatus wrote: post #506
vbo wrote: post #419

I feel we've been collectively losing the battle to keep our conversations private. The anti-encryption laws are likely vocally opposed only by a minority, while the majority believes they had no privacy to begin with and governments can read your messages at a whim. And perhaps that's true to some extent. But since most people believe the battle is lost, moreso that this has always been the status quo, then any batt…

It's crazy that we allow this at all. The government can't observe clandestine conversations that occur in person, does that mean they can mandate us to carry a government recording device? That people don't equally balk at requests to encumber encryption is baffling.

Should it be legal to have a private conversation along a windy beach?

Government: “Allowing it might be as dangerous as a gun!”

Re: Apple says it'll remove iMessage and FaceTime in UK rather than break encryption

#638

Post by guy98238710 »

Someone should bring up lawyer and doctor privilege as an argument. Phones are intimately personal devices that people take to their homes and use for a lot of very private stuff. Phones cannot fulfill their job as a personal device and be a police snitch at the same time just like lawyers cannot advise their clients and inform the police at the same time. There needs to be a personal computer privilege.

Re: Apple says it'll remove iMessage and FaceTime in UK rather than break encryption

#639

Post by mensetmanusman »

jen20 wrote: post #558
crackercrews wrote: post #529

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How is this a self-own?

Because it makes people look like pathetic muppets. If you mean "Fuck Joe Biden", say "Fuck Joe Biden", don't clutch your damn pearls about it.

They did say that, but the media translated it to ‘let’s go Brandon’ as a self own, so it’s many levels deep :)
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