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Apple says it'll remove iMessage and FaceTime in UK rather than break encryption

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Re: Apple says it'll remove iMessage and FaceTime in UK rather than break encryption

#581
post #525

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wait, do you think there are people who think “Let’s Go Brandon” is anything but a hilarious conservative self-own?

Yeah. Literally everyone who says it unironically. So the original usage.

I thought of this immediately but was too lazy to edit so this is what I deserve

Re: Apple says it'll remove iMessage and FaceTime in UK rather than break encryption

#582

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not sure why you got downvoted, it’s purposely hard to switch ecosystems, I’m in the middle of switching from android to IOS, but still have over a decade of data in gmail, google photos, and google drive. And I waited until my wife was willing/ready to switch because it’s harder to share across ecosystems. Fortunately we don’t own many apps (mostly things with external subscriptions like news, streaming media, etc)…

> still have over a decade of data in gmail, google photos, and google drive And apps are available for iOS that let you access all of them. If you install Google Drive on the iPhone, your drive shows up along side iCloud in the Files app and open/save file dialoga

Yes that’s what I’m doing for now, but I left android because I didn’t like sharing so much data with google, now I’m still sharing that data with google, and now apple too.

Re: Apple says it'll remove iMessage and FaceTime in UK rather than break encryption

#583

Why not a similarly brave stance in China? In China Apple claims it "obeys all local laws" except in the UK it wants to be courageous? I guess it's a brave state unless the $$$ are good.

Apple claims that messages sent with their Messages application are end-to-end encrypted, even in China, and that they have made no concessions to government of China. But... Everyone in China has their iCloud backups stored in China and Apple holds the keys to these backups. While Apple cannot read E2E encrypted Messages content, they do upload an unencrypted (but encrypted with keys they control) backup of all of t…

An iPhone doesn’t force you to you iCloud backups (or iCloud at all). Or does it in China?

Re: Apple says it'll remove iMessage and FaceTime in UK rather than break encryption

#584

Why do the British still think they have power to do dumb stuff like this? Their economy is floundering, their consumer market is small, and their government is a joke.

The UK is still the 6th biggest market in the world. Enough potential profit that most companies will be happy to follow slightly ridiculous laws.

The only reason Apple are saying this is because it's good PR and nobody in the UK uses iMessage anyway, so they won't lose any money.

Wake me up when WhatsApp say the same...

Re: Apple says it'll remove iMessage and FaceTime in UK rather than break encryption

#585
post #363
post #207

The same Apple that lets the CCP operate its entire App Store in China? It's easy to criticize a government when you know there will be no retaliation. To judge a company's true stance on such issues see how they behave when there's a prospect of real financial loss.

You don't think there's a prospect of financial loss? They literally just said they would pull their products. Ecosystem features like those are huge contributors to platform retention. And if the cynic in you doesn't believe that, just ask yourself why they burn the money to keep staffing development and maintenance teams for iMessage and FaceTime - they aren't doing it out of kindness right?

> Ecosystem features like those are huge contributors to platform retention

In the UK, Facetime maybe. But iMessage isn't used to the level as it is in US. I can't imagine Apple's UK share would take a significant hit due to no iMessage when everyone already uses cross-platform Whatsapp.

Re: Apple says it'll remove iMessage and FaceTime in UK rather than break encryption

#586

Why not a similarly brave stance in China? In China Apple claims it "obeys all local laws" except in the UK it wants to be courageous? I guess it's a brave state unless the $$$ are good.

Yea, pretty interesting point.. seems like either the uk market isn't big enough for them to implement a solution or they don't care about the market and they care about people in the uk but they don't care about people in China.

They may hold the UK to different cultural standards than china.

China is tricky and I'm sure after Hong Kong Apple changed their calculus.

Re: Apple says it'll remove iMessage and FaceTime in UK rather than break encryption

#587
post #558

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because it makes people look like pathetic muppets. If you mean "Fuck Joe Biden", say "Fuck Joe Biden", don't clutch your damn pearls about it.

Interesting take. I understood conservatives to use it because it is also taking a shot at the so-called MSM, who dubiously created the phrase. I never knew people though conservatives were being muppets by using it.

The 'MSM' (what a dated phrase) didn't create it, it was just a single reporter at a NASCAR race who either misheard it or bowdlerised it for the live TV audience.

Re: Apple says it'll remove iMessage and FaceTime in UK rather than break encryption

#588

Why not a similarly brave stance in China? In China Apple claims it "obeys all local laws" except in the UK it wants to be courageous? I guess it's a brave state unless the $$$ are good.

Yea, pretty interesting point.. seems like either the uk market isn't big enough for them to implement a solution or they don't care about the market and they care about people in the uk but they don't care about people in China.

in advance I agree with a more cynical point as well, but I think we need to consider that there's equally plausible and more positive potential reasons

- if there is success in the UK, relevant persons at Apple can make a more compelling argument to push back on China and other governments a lot more

- perhaps apple is still pushing hard on china and using the UK as an example that they're willing to drop a long time strong market over the anti-encryption legislation

I'm not saying either is the case, but there are benign or even positive reads on why apple is more aggressive with the UK

Re: Apple says it'll remove iMessage and FaceTime in UK rather than break encryption

#589
post #506

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's crazy that we allow this at all. The government can't observe clandestine conversations that occur in person, does that mean they can mandate us to carry a government recording device? That people don't equally balk at requests to encumber encryption is baffling.

I like this vein of argument: assume that it is good that the government be able to snoop on your text messages. Why not in-person conversations as well? OK, let's make it so everything you say gets recorded. Eesh.

Yeah... the crux is should electronic conversations be afforded the same rights, and by extension are they assumed rights for all communication? Where to draw the line? It's definitely murky.

Re: Apple says it'll remove iMessage and FaceTime in UK rather than break encryption

#590

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> still have over a decade of data in gmail, google photos, and google drive And apps are available for iOS that let you access all of them. If you install Google Drive on the iPhone, your drive shows up along side iCloud in the Files app and open/save file dialoga

Yes that’s what I’m doing for now, but I left android because I didn’t like sharing so much data with google, now I’m still sharing that data with google, and now apple too.

Google Drive to iCloud Drive:

Do just the opposite of this

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36803905

I’m sure there are ways to migrate your email. Thunderbird?

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