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Apple says it'll remove iMessage and FaceTime in UK rather than break encryption

9to5mac.com

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Re: Apple says it'll remove iMessage and FaceTime in UK rather than break encryption

#361

Post by FirmwareBurner »

Johnny555 wrote: post #257
FirmwareBurner wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I have switched from iOS to Android and vice versa multiple times while still driving the same car. Did your app purchases form the Google Play Store automatically transfer to your Apple App store, and did your photos off your Google drive transfer to your iCloud, or vice-versa? Read my comment again, I ware referring to the ecosystems not being interchangeable, not the phones themselves. The incompatible ecosystems…

Not sure why you got downvoted, it’s purposely hard to switch ecosystems, I’m in the middle of switching from android to IOS, but still have over a decade of data in gmail, google photos, and google drive. And I waited until my wife was willing/ready to switch because it’s harder to share across ecosystems. Fortunately we don’t own many apps (mostly things with external subscriptions like news, streaming media, etc)…

>Not sure why you got downvoted

Fanboys don't like you pointing out the hard to swallow truth pills. They expect comments to validate their lifestyle choice, not contradict them. Any contraction is a direct offense to them.

> I’m in the middle of switching from android to IOS

At least for you it's easy, because all google apps exist for iOS, but switching away from iOS is absolutely impossible as there is no iCloud or iMessage for Android, so all your data remains hostage with Apple if you try to move.

Re: Apple says it'll remove iMessage and FaceTime in UK rather than break encryption

#362

Post by kingrazor »

crottypeter wrote: post #354
kingrazor wrote: post #263

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've never really understood what people mean by this. For me, iMessage is indistinguishable from SMS, except for the color of the messages, and the fact that I can use iMessage over WiFi.

Group messages. If I send an SMS message to a group of people, they all see a message from me. They don't know who else got it. And if they reply, they reply only to me. Is your experience different? WhatsApp (and I think iMessage) allow me to create a group with a name/purpose and send messages to the group and receive replies to the whole group. (P.S. I went from dumb-phones to Android and have limited exposure to…

That used to be my experience years ago, but now whether I use android or iphone, I see the whole group.

Re: Apple says it'll remove iMessage and FaceTime in UK rather than break encryption

#363

Post by gretch »

paxys wrote: post #207

The same Apple that lets the CCP operate its entire App Store in China? It's easy to criticize a government when you know there will be no retaliation. To judge a company's true stance on such issues see how they behave when there's a prospect of real financial loss.

You don't think there's a prospect of financial loss? They literally just said they would pull their products.

Ecosystem features like those are huge contributors to platform retention. And if the cynic in you doesn't believe that, just ask yourself why they burn the money to keep staffing development and maintenance teams for iMessage and FaceTime - they aren't doing it out of kindness right?

Re: Apple says it'll remove iMessage and FaceTime in UK rather than break encryption

#364

Post by generalizations »

93po wrote: post #240
wonderwonder wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Who said there wasn't? I'm not saying only minorities do this, far from. I'm saying the police openly ignored it because they were minorities in this case. This is not some sort of accusation that only minorities abuse kids, only that the government that wants your data to protect kids is questionable at best in this area.

"the gangs running them are minorities" pretty strongly implies it's only minorities doing this

It’s a reference to a specific news incident a few years ago.

A gang, composed of minorities, was explicitly ignored by the police because the police were afraid of being seen as racist for cracking down on them.

Re: Apple says it'll remove iMessage and FaceTime in UK rather than break encryption

#365

Post by gigel82 »

cj wrote: post #11

> Apple previously withdrew plans for its own CSAM-scanning feature for iCloud Photos, following pushback from customers and human rights groups. Apple’s solution was more privacy-preserving than what is now proposed by the UK government. Preface: I don't have an opinion on one side or the other. Question: what were the arguments lobbied against apple that caused them to withdraw? Also, is CSAM the motivating factor…

Apple's "solution" was the technical equivalent of Microsoft having Windows Defender scanning every single file on a user computer and attaching a "hash" / tag to it. Then downloading a database of "forbidden hashes" from an unspecified government authority.

Their initial plan was to only compare against the database when you upload to iCloud (in the comparison, OneDrive) and notify the authorities, but of course once the infrastructure for local scanning was in place, extending it to other "scenarios" was just a small update away (I'm sure RIAA/MPAA would love to hear about your old mp3 folder you kept moving over from pc to pc over the years).

Re: Apple says it'll remove iMessage and FaceTime in UK rather than break encryption

#366

Post by dspillett »

make3 wrote: post #216
Doches wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In fairness, Meta has said the same thing re: WhatsApp, so while Apple deserves _some_ credit here for sticking to their principles, they're not exactly leading the pack. Which brings home the point that if _Meta_ isn't onboard with your privacy-obliterating proposal then you know you've really lost the plot...

didn't eta just move to make WhatsApp not end to end encrypted? Meta was also in the biggest mass surveillance & influence scandal of all times for a private not too long ago, please don't forget

> didn't eta just move to make WhatsApp not end to end encrypted?

If so I missed the memo (that isn't unlikely, I'm not saying you are wrong!). Any references/links for that? A quick search doesn't turn up much, but Google isn't what it used to be…

Re: Apple says it'll remove iMessage and FaceTime in UK rather than break encryption

#367

Post by didntcheck »

deadletters wrote: post #158
mihaaly wrote: post #123

I wonder why the UK legislators not preparing a new regulation mandating every keys to every door and safe having a bypass mechanism for government officials. Behind every door and every locked place there could be child pornography and illicit materials hidden!! Every house, every hotel safe are suspects! Criminal oversight, criminal oversight! (and if they think their reasoning for backdoors into online chat and co…

Wait until you hear about search warrants

If you could invade someone's house as easily and invisibly as digital surveillance, physical search warrants would be swiftly ignored by the police too

Re: Apple says it'll remove iMessage and FaceTime in UK rather than break encryption

#368

Post by [deleted] »

downWidOutaFite wrote: post #335
sanitycheck wrote: post #209

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We have recently seen what happens when somebody even slightly left of centre gets anywhere near power in the UK. Our major parties are now squashed into the spectrum between the mean US Democrat and the mean US Republican, it's quite depressing.

Are you referring to Jeremy Corbyn? He was brought down by a dishonest campaign by the Jewish lobby.

[deleted]

Re: Apple says it'll remove iMessage and FaceTime in UK rather than break encryption

#369

Post by XajniN »

vxNsr wrote: post #311
joshuaissac wrote: post #197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

WhatsApp is used by 78% of the users in the UK, and iMessage is used by 25%. https://www.statista.com/forecasts/997945/most-used-messenge... (non-free link)

But who is that 25%? iPhone users have money. I’m sure there is some significant overlap between iMessage and WhatsApp users (I know I and everyone I know use(s) both). But if you threaten politicians with losing their blue bubbles they’re gonna fall in line.

No one in Europe cares about the blue bubbles.

I prefer iMessage over the other messengers, but I still haven’t met anyone who cares. A lot of people don’t even know why the bubbles are sometimes green.

Re: Apple says it'll remove iMessage and FaceTime in UK rather than break encryption

#370

Post by gretch »

Aachen wrote: post #325
etempleton wrote: post #218

The UK keeps trying to throw their weight around only to find out they aren’t that big. The CMA with Xbox and now this. They aren’t large enough for Apple and Microsoft to make massive changes just to accommodate a relatively small market.

Inversely, is the UK so much worse off for not having a few games in their market? Neither is so big it can go without the other, not only the UK.

Individually no, but in aggregate... A few games here, iMessage, Facetime, Whatsapp maybe, some other internet products, etc

Does it boast something else to make up for the loss of these things? Trading something for nothing always feels kinda bad. And if the trade is "We stood up for the right thing with respect to Cloud Gaming monopolization", you constituents might be kinda pissed after a while.

You know the old adage "Bread and Circus". Well you gotta make sure the circus is running well.

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