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Apple says it'll remove iMessage and FaceTime in UK rather than break encryption

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451–460 of 785 posts

Re: Apple says it'll remove iMessage and FaceTime in UK rather than break encryption

#451

Stuff like this is why I'm an Apple fanboy. I'm happy to pay a premium and be locked into their walled garden for some things if it means supporting a company that has the power to shift policy in favor of human rights (privacy in this case).

I have seen some arguments that they don't care about your privacy and it's all right there in the privacy policy if you're willing to read it. A video on the subject [1]

[1] https://youtu.be/r38Epj6ldKU

Re: Apple says it'll remove iMessage and FaceTime in UK rather than break encryption

#452

Stuff like this is why I'm an Apple fanboy. I'm happy to pay a premium and be locked into their walled garden for some things if it means supporting a company that has the power to shift policy in favor of human rights (privacy in this case).

If you think they're really going to do that and not hand over keys, I can give you a great price on this bridge I'm keen to move.

Re: Apple says it'll remove iMessage and FaceTime in UK rather than break encryption

#453

I'm curious if Apple is complying with Chinese censorship with iMessage. As far as I know, at least it was usable in China without VPN in 2015.

They're complying, in that China has not required them to alter iMessage in China. It's still E2EE. But iCloud backups aren't, and each country's respective government has access to those.

Re: Apple says it'll remove iMessage and FaceTime in UK rather than break encryption

#454

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I have switched from iOS to Android and vice versa multiple times while still driving the same car. Did your app purchases form the Google Play Store automatically transfer to your Apple App store, and did your photos off your Google drive transfer to your iCloud, or vice-versa? Read my comment again, I ware referring to the ecosystems not being interchangeable, not the phones themselves. The incompatible ecosystems…

Not sure why you got downvoted, it’s purposely hard to switch ecosystems, I’m in the middle of switching from android to IOS, but still have over a decade of data in gmail, google photos, and google drive. And I waited until my wife was willing/ready to switch because it’s harder to share across ecosystems. Fortunately we don’t own many apps (mostly things with external subscriptions like news, streaming media, etc)…

> still have over a decade of data in gmail, google photos, and google drive

And apps are available for iOS that let you access all of them. If you install Google Drive on the iPhone, your drive shows up along side iCloud in the Files app and open/save file dialoga

Re: Apple says it'll remove iMessage and FaceTime in UK rather than break encryption

#455

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's more, a National Security Letter is not necessarily addressed to the company's executives and lawyers. A National Security Letter could be send to somebody lower in the organization, closer to the targeted data (for instance a sysadmin) with a clause threatening them with prison time if they tell anybody, even their boss or company lawyers about it. They can essentially conscript anybody in the company to work…

This sounds scary, but unlikely. Do you have a source that this tactic is used and effective? My immediate reaction to such a letter would be to contact the company legal department regardless of whether the letter said not to, simply because I'd assume unless given very good evidence (and originating from a .gov domain isn't good enough) that it was a scam. Edit: According to the EFF you can talk to an attorney abou…

I would not suggest taking legal advice from the EFF. You might as well contact the sovereign citizen movement at that point.

Re: Apple says it'll remove iMessage and FaceTime in UK rather than break encryption

#456

I'm not against breaking e2ee when the right protections are in place. 1, Court signed order 2, Public Disclosure during prosecution or within X time of the court order being signed (including when no wrongdoing found) 3, Some sort of test to ensure it's not misused (imminent threat to life, serious crime like murder/child kidnap or something) The idea that a judge can order a cavity search to find information leadin…

E2EE is a true/false label. Either it is, or it ain’t. It is not mathematically possible to selectively break E2EE. If it’s broken, it’s not E2EE.

There are stronger and weaker forms of it, though. Apple holds the keys to the identity (public key) exchange in iMessage. You're still trusting Apple not to mitm your conversations, but at least they wouldn't be able to do this retroactively. Other E2EE messaging apps at least have a way to verify each others' pubkeys, but it's not required and very few people do it.

Re: Apple says it'll remove iMessage and FaceTime in UK rather than break encryption

#457

Stuff like this is why I'm an Apple fanboy. I'm happy to pay a premium and be locked into their walled garden for some things if it means supporting a company that has the power to shift policy in favor of human rights (privacy in this case).

Seems that the UK market is not big enough. In China Apple had no problems with ceding control of their local servers to the Chinese government [1]. Not to mention of using forced labor (mostly Uyghurs, against which China is committing acts of genocide [2]). So, Apple and human rights my ass! 1. https://www.nytimes.com/2021/05/17/technology/apple-china-ce... 2. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uyghur_genocide

I don't think it has anything to do with the market size, which after the Brexit fiasco and the pandemic has shrunk considerably, but it has the most to do with the UK labelling itself as a democracy while behaving like a dictatorship when it comes to surveillance and other "think of the children" laws.

I would say Apple is pointing out the hypocrisy.

Re: Apple says it'll remove iMessage and FaceTime in UK rather than break encryption

#458
post #324
post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In fairness, Meta has said the same thing re: WhatsApp, so while Apple deserves _some_ credit here for sticking to their principles, they're not exactly leading the pack. Which brings home the point that if _Meta_ isn't onboard with your privacy-obliterating proposal then you know you've really lost the plot...

I keep writing and deleting responses. I am completely baffled. Speechless, really. You cannot actually believe that meta gives a single solitary fuck about privacy?

This isn't Reddit, please make higher quality comments.

I think the GP is likely aligned with you anyways.

Re: Apple says it'll remove iMessage and FaceTime in UK rather than break encryption

#459
post #216
post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In fairness, Meta has said the same thing re: WhatsApp, so while Apple deserves _some_ credit here for sticking to their principles, they're not exactly leading the pack. Which brings home the point that if _Meta_ isn't onboard with your privacy-obliterating proposal then you know you've really lost the plot...

didn't eta just move to make WhatsApp not end to end encrypted? Meta was also in the biggest mass surveillance & influence scandal of all times for a private not too long ago, please don't forget

Opposite, actually. They said they're making Messenger and Instagram Direct e2ee.

Re: Apple says it'll remove iMessage and FaceTime in UK rather than break encryption

#460

Stuff like this is why I'm an Apple fanboy. I'm happy to pay a premium and be locked into their walled garden for some things if it means supporting a company that has the power to shift policy in favor of human rights (privacy in this case).

> Stuff like this is why I'm an Apple fanboy. A fanboy without iMessage and FaceTime ...

I don't think the OP lives in the UK :)
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