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Beyond introvert vs. extrovert

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Re: Beyond introvert vs. extrovert

#91

Post by pydry »

SketchySeaBeast wrote: post #53
pydry wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>introverts find interactions with other “draining” I'm pretty sure this is bullshit. Level of drain = lack of trust in that person X overall level of anxiety If you're highly anxious and socializing with people you dont trust (strangers, acquaintances) then the experience will be stressful and draining. Ive met many self declared introverts who have no problem socializing for long periods in small groups with people…

You're heavily conflating anxiety and introversion. My wife is an extrovert with anxiety - once she gets comfortable she's energized by people. She comes home bouncing off the walls. I'm an introvert - regardless of comfort level I come home and want to go to bed immediately.

Im pretty sure everybody gets energized once they've gotten fully comfortable with someone.

That process of getting comfortable is the relevant context though - not a virtual dial in their brain that goes from "introvert" to "extrovert".

Re: Beyond introvert vs. extrovert

#92

Post by yarekt »

m463 wrote: post #61
hightrix wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As an anecdote, I am always drained by social interaction and always recharged by solitude. I can be home alone all week and still dread going out to a party if I’m not in the mood. I’m a very social person, but it is still draining. I have never felt so alone that I need social interaction, but I have frequently felt a strong need to be alone. But I’m also like the parent in that I’ve lead large teams, had greater i…

I think there are a spectrum of social interactions. There are negative social interactions, and they frequently leave me drained, or seeking solitude. There are busy interactions where lots of people require my time and attention even though I have other things to do - they can also leave me drained. There are also positive interactions, with friends or maybe places where people are gathered with a common interest t…

Yea I think you’re getting close. I enjoy social interactions, but even the most enjoyable ones drain me, even though once I recharge, I end up seeking them out despite. Sometimes the negative emphasis of the word “drain” makes it tricky to understand

Re: Beyond introvert vs. extrovert

#93

Post by amadeuspagel »

watwut wrote: post #69
karaterobot wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I never understand why people (especially in the US) have a desire to split everything into two opposing sides For the record, I don't think this has anything to do with the U.S., false dichotomies are a more or less equally common human shorthand anywhere and anywhen that I've visited, or studied at all. I've assumed it's because people don't have time or energy to consider all the nuances of everything all the ti…

But, US culture is saturated by them and Americans really tend to create dichotomies much more then French or what have you. There really seems to be some dteong cultural tendency to do this.

The left-right dichotomy was developed in france.

Re: Beyond introvert vs. extrovert

#94

Post by norir »

WastingMyTime89 wrote: post #10
norir wrote: post #4

To be fair to Jung, he did not believe that anyone was a pure introvert or extrovert but he needed to use caricatures to illustrate the concepts. He also explicitly warns in Psychological Types not to use his ideas to create a personality classification system.

To be fair to Jung, most of what he wrote is barely coherent garbage with zero experimental backing and an attitude towards intellectual honesty and scientific integrity which I would politely qualify as problematic. Sorry, I think it had to be said.

Do you fear Jung's ideas? If they are incoherent garbage with no merit, shouldn't they just collapse under their own weight?

Re: Beyond introvert vs. extrovert

#95

Post by wouldbecouldbe »

rqtwteye wrote: post #26

I never understand why people (especially in the US) have a desire to split everything into two opposing sides. Liberal/conservative, introvert/extrovert and many others. I think it's pretty obvious that most (all?) people are on a spectrum of many dimensions and can't be categorized that easily. These labels can give useful hints but there is way more detail to look at.

Most of us are somewhere in the middle, but true extraverts are just wired different. They are really different.

Many normal people are social when they feel good, and less so when they are not.

But extraverts have learned to use social interactions to "fix" their emotional state. Or maybe they are born with it. However they deal with social aspects completely different.

I think most of us are in the middle. Where some of us lean to less social, but I think part of that is emotional issues that haven't been dealt with. Whereas extraverts are just different.

Re: Beyond introvert vs. extrovert

#96

Post by Delk »

InexSquirrel wrote: post #89
karaterobot wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Would love to see some evidence for this, but okay.

Agree that evidence is appropriate, but as someone that's not in the US (NZ), we do broadly see it that way. US politics is very pervasive internationally, and you guys definitely appear to be split way more into 'left' and 'right' (as one example). Compared to NZ's politics... which is more like a blob of parties which sit pretty close the centre, and sometimes parts of the blobs move more left or more right. But na…

Multi-party systems generally tend to have less of a gap between parties. Especially if no single party is strong enough to hold majority power alone in a parliamentary system, decision-making requires collaboration between multiple parties.

A lot of the polarisation in US politics is probably due to the two-party system. I don't know whether or not that has anything to do with people thinking in false dichotomies in other contexts.

Re: Beyond introvert vs. extrovert

#97

Post by thomastjeffery »

leonhard wrote: post #55
sublinear wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> They both raised me, and they both stressed the importance of good social graces. No offense intended. Parents often tell, sometimes show, but rarely teach their kids much. Teaching isn't easy. My original point was that so much of this is also in the hands of the person, not your parents or society. Nurture isn't all external. I had a similar relationship with my parents. > But if there's a hell, my corner of it l…

Any advice on how to develop such skills in charm and charisma?

There are two ways to be charismatic:

1. Emulate charismatic behaviors.

2. Create intentional social space for those around you.

#1 is what I would call "politeness" or "charm". There's a strictly traditional (conservative/Victorian, though I'm coming from a western perspective) way to do it, but every branch of counterculture has effectively created it's own version. I would count everything from chivalry to fashion here: anything that helps people make useful assumptions about you. As soon as you are having a comfortable conversation with someone, you are ready for #2.

#2 is more meaningful and more genuine, but it's also really difficult to do without starting with #1. Every person in every social interaction exists somewhere on a spectrum from anxious to confident. You can't directly change a person's position on the spectrum, but you can move the spectrum itself.

Lately, I've been watching the sketch comedy series, I Think You Should Leave with Tim Robinson. Robinson is a master at playing with that spectrum: He squeezes it together, making intensely awkward cringe moments for the characters; then at the most unexpected moment, he stretches the spectrum out with impossibly intimate social interactions where everyone in the scene is suddenly loving and respectful to each other, totally leaving behind the awkwardness they started with.

Re: Beyond introvert vs. extrovert

#98

Post by isk517 »

pydry wrote: post #91
SketchySeaBeast wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're heavily conflating anxiety and introversion. My wife is an extrovert with anxiety - once she gets comfortable she's energized by people. She comes home bouncing off the walls. I'm an introvert - regardless of comfort level I come home and want to go to bed immediately.

Im pretty sure everybody gets energized once they've gotten fully comfortable with someone. That process of getting comfortable is the relevant context though - not a virtual dial in their brain that goes from "introvert" to "extrovert".

Ha, I wish. The level of comfort with someone really only effects the rate of energy drain, at least in my case.

Re: Beyond introvert vs. extrovert

#99

Post by analog31 »

norir wrote: post #94
WastingMyTime89 wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To be fair to Jung, most of what he wrote is barely coherent garbage with zero experimental backing and an attitude towards intellectual honesty and scientific integrity which I would politely qualify as problematic. Sorry, I think it had to be said.

Do you fear Jung's ideas? If they are incoherent garbage with no merit, shouldn't they just collapse under their own weight?

History doesn't support this. Bad ideas can be remarkably persistent. Yes I fear Jung's ideas if they give rise to beliefs that are harmful to me, or to society. An example would be biased stereotypes surrounding the introvert / extravert dichotomy.

Disclosure: I'd probably test as an extravert, but would advise against identifying as an introvert in a business setting due to the bias against introverts.

Re: Beyond introvert vs. extrovert

#100

Post by SketchySeaBeast »

pydry wrote: post #91
SketchySeaBeast wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're heavily conflating anxiety and introversion. My wife is an extrovert with anxiety - once she gets comfortable she's energized by people. She comes home bouncing off the walls. I'm an introvert - regardless of comfort level I come home and want to go to bed immediately.

Im pretty sure everybody gets energized once they've gotten fully comfortable with someone. That process of getting comfortable is the relevant context though - not a virtual dial in their brain that goes from "introvert" to "extrovert".

But that's not what I'm saying - I'm saying conversation drains me even if I'm with someone I'm comfortable with. I'm tired when it's over. My wife is not. She comes home excited.
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