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The force that shapes everything around us: Parking

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Re: The force that shapes everything around us: Parking

#291

Post by AlotOfReading »

WheatMillington wrote: post #265
kibwen wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sold my car years ago and moved to Boston. I'll never go back to live anywhere that requires me to own a car. I bike or walk everywhere, and what makes me hopeful is that biking infrastructure in Boston (and neighboring cities like Cambridge) has improved dramatically in the years since I've been here and just keeps getting better. Google tells me that the average TCO of car ownership in the US was $10,728 in 2022. B…

Don't you feel confined to your little area? In the weekend my wife and I drove out to a rural hike, 40mins out of town. I couldn't imagine giving up that kind of convenience and missing those kinds of opportunities. What if you don't live near a pool? Your kids just don't learn to swim? My local pool is a 15 minute drive, but a harrowing cycle route.

Note OP, but I'll try.

    In the weekend my wife and I drove out to a rural hike, 40mins out of town.
How do local tourists get to that hike? Probably buses or trains, which in decent systems are usually competitive with vehicles. It's how I did hikes in the rural Himalayas and Latin America.

    What if you don't live near a pool?
You build the pools where people live. They live closer together in cities designed before cars. Even rural towns used to be fairly dense and walkable. I picked a random suburb of Boston called Beverly. There are 3 public pools and a number of ponds that may or may not be swimmable. No one is more than approx 1mi from a public pool.

Also, commuter cycling should not be harrowing. It becomes harrowing when planners don't properly invest in the infrastructure and mix modes in dangerous ways. Imagine if we did the same thing with planes and used local highways as runways. Narrow the streets to reasonable, 3m lanes and even a 2-lane road can fit a dedicated cycle lane. The streets in my california neighborhood use a horrifying 12m for only 2 travel lanes, yet still can't find room for a cycle path.

Re: The force that shapes everything around us: Parking

#292

Post by NegativeLatency »

lo_zamoyski wrote: post #259
UtopiaPunk wrote: post #30

There's an interesting interview with a designer of SimCity, where he discusses parking: Geoff Manaugh: While you were making those measurements of different real-world cities, did you discover any surprising patterns or spatial relationships Librande: Yes, definitely. I think the biggest one was the parking lots. When I started measuring out our local grocery store, which I don’t think of as being that big, I was bl…

The excess of cars in cities is bad enough, but I do wonder whether underground parking would at least help. It can be more expensive, especially for taller buildings, but it would eliminate the eyesore and recoup the valuable urban real estate and potentially free up the streets. Realistically, we have to accept that we've spent almost a century creating a situation that has enabled car dominance and that many peopl…

Can't speak to this everywhere but in Seattle and Portland there is already extensive underground and 1st 2nd floor parking for many of the "4 over 1" style of modern apartments.

Part of the problem with this is that it's so expensive that it cuts into the developers budget leading to less housing being built in medium density areas and larger/taller buildings so to keep the margins up.

Even if you imagine a magic shrinking situation where a car could be shrunk down and put in your pocket like a pokéball there's still the issue that roads in cities don't have the throughput to be able to move all those cars effectively.

Re: The force that shapes everything around us: Parking

#293

Post by whymauri »

WheatMillington wrote: post #265
kibwen wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sold my car years ago and moved to Boston. I'll never go back to live anywhere that requires me to own a car. I bike or walk everywhere, and what makes me hopeful is that biking infrastructure in Boston (and neighboring cities like Cambridge) has improved dramatically in the years since I've been here and just keeps getting better. Google tells me that the average TCO of car ownership in the US was $10,728 in 2022. B…

Don't you feel confined to your little area? In the weekend my wife and I drove out to a rural hike, 40mins out of town. I couldn't imagine giving up that kind of convenience and missing those kinds of opportunities. What if you don't live near a pool? Your kids just don't learn to swim? My local pool is a 15 minute drive, but a harrowing cycle route.

I live in Cambridge. All places I've lived in Cambridge were within a 5 minute walk of a publicly accessible pool. Before I had a car for outdoor climbing, I took the commuter rail to see local towns or got a ZipCar and split the cost with friends.

These days, most of my trips are on my bike. Anything I can round trip within 50 miles round trip is fair game. My roommate made it to Cape Cod a few weekends ago, but he's very athletic.

Re: The force that shapes everything around us: Parking

#294

Post by whymauri »

kibwen wrote: post #106
elijaht wrote: post #51

I live car-free in NYC. A large appeal of NYC to me was not having to park. I don't ~mind~ driving, but I absolutely hated having to deal with finding parking when I lived in other cities. Parking generally makes me feel stressed (competition for free spots), or makes me pay (using something like SpotHero makes it easy to find a spot, but costs me). It's not even just major cities either- I'm frequently in a college…

Sold my car years ago and moved to Boston. I'll never go back to live anywhere that requires me to own a car. I bike or walk everywhere, and what makes me hopeful is that biking infrastructure in Boston (and neighboring cities like Cambridge) has improved dramatically in the years since I've been here and just keeps getting better. Google tells me that the average TCO of car ownership in the US was $10,728 in 2022. B…

I did the math for my aunt recently: she pays more in rent and car expenses living in suburban South Florida (Kendall) for the same square footage I get in Cambridge, MA. Living paycheck to paycheck sandwiched between a super Walmart and the Florida Turnpike, it's not exactly glamorous.

She's considering ditching the car and moving north. Gas, maintenance, and car payments are silent killers. Most people equate them to rent and cannot imagine a life where they don't pay for their car.

Re: The force that shapes everything around us: Parking

#295

Post by unsignedint »

Ah, parking... It's a topic that resonates with me deeply. I must admit, I've declined some get-togethers simply because I knew parking would be a challenge. There's nothing more disheartening than realizing the only option is to find street parking in an unfamiliar neighborhood, and the added stress of searching for a spot, especially parallel parking, just adds to the frustration. This stress often reaches a point where the first thing I do when heading to a new place is to conduct a thorough Google Maps search, examining the aerial view and Street View to identify available parking options. Of course, if public transportation is a viable alternative, I try to opt for that, but unfortunately, it's not always efficient and can significantly increase travel time.

Re: The force that shapes everything around us: Parking

#296

Post by simplyluke »

gwbas1c wrote: post #143
supportengineer wrote: post #130

We have an abundance of parking and a shortage of housing, it's too bad we don't have a way to quickly setup housing (even temporary) in parking areas. Most parking is already located near other utilities so they would already be close by. To start with, we could require every parking lot over a certain size provide basic amenities like public restrooms with showers and water fountains.

> it's too bad we don't have a way to quickly setup housing (even temporary) in parking areas. RVs. Don't quote me, but I suspect some temporary shelters during disasters are RVs (and go to the exact parking lots you describe.) > We have an abundance of parking and a shortage of housing But I'm not sure that putting RVs in underutilized parking lots will solve the homeless crisis. (Assuming that's what you're referri…

> I suspect some temporary shelters during disasters are RVs

Yes, they're known as FEMA trailers, and gained some national attention in the late 2000s due to toxic levels of formaldehyde in the ones that were used in the Katrina response.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FEMA_trailer

Re: The force that shapes everything around us: Parking

#297

Post by danielhep »

WheatMillington wrote: post #265
kibwen wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sold my car years ago and moved to Boston. I'll never go back to live anywhere that requires me to own a car. I bike or walk everywhere, and what makes me hopeful is that biking infrastructure in Boston (and neighboring cities like Cambridge) has improved dramatically in the years since I've been here and just keeps getting better. Google tells me that the average TCO of car ownership in the US was $10,728 in 2022. B…

Don't you feel confined to your little area? In the weekend my wife and I drove out to a rural hike, 40mins out of town. I couldn't imagine giving up that kind of convenience and missing those kinds of opportunities. What if you don't live near a pool? Your kids just don't learn to swim? My local pool is a 15 minute drive, but a harrowing cycle route.

I live car free in Seattle, and with the combo of Amtrak, car rentals, and my ebike, I never feel confined. Even renting a car occasionally costs much less than if I were to own one in parking alone.

Re: The force that shapes everything around us: Parking

#298

Post by throw0101a »

vel0city wrote: post #286
throw0101a wrote: post #268

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Define "smaller houses". Smaller than what ? I can find tiny(er) houses compared to what I posted in recent developments/sub-divisions in the suburbs of Toronto (Mississauga, Oakville, Brampton, Pickering, Oshawa, etc ). All the streets in question have big(er) and small(er) houses, with both semi- and fully-detached houses. Some areas have more of some kind than another. Next time I'll re-arrange the order of the li…

I'm not sure what the average square footage of that Geoffrey location is, I'm not great at eyeballing that. But the average US SFH is what, almost 2,500sqft these days? I imagine these are less than that figure? EDIT: I just did some quick Google Maps measuring on that 159 Geoffrey St, I estimated about 60x20 floor plate, maybe less. Lose some space from the stairs, two mostly full floors and maybe a finished attic,…

Recently sold, 2700 sq. ft:

* https://juliekinnear.com/toronto-houses/51-geoffrey-street/

Currently for sale in the same area:

* https://www.properly.ca/buy/home/view/JHfk2xo4TU6BZrfBk2c3gw...

Notice the 'high' prices: this is because this neighbourhood is in high demand because urban living seems to be cool again 'with the kids'. But back in the 1960s, '70s, and '80s the prices were much, much lower because all the 'cool kids' (WASPs) were flocking to the then-new suburbs and leaving the dirty city for the immigrants (Poles in the case of Roncesvalles; Little Portugal is the next area over, and Little Italy next to that). Since the late-1990s urban living started becoming cool again. Of course such urban/walkable neighbourhoods aren't built any more, so a finite resource gets its price bidded up.

Re: The force that shapes everything around us: Parking

#299

Post by xyzelement »

digging wrote: post #256
xyzelement wrote: post #212

Parking is impactful but is ultimately shaped by human preferences that are revealed by the choices people make. For example, you can live in NYC car-free, but many (most?) people move out to the burbs once they have a family, partially because lower density + car enables better family life. What works well for a single-and-dating young professional, doesn't work as well for a dad. If ample parking makes family life…

> Parking is impactful but is ultimately shaped by human preferences that are revealed by the choices people make. This is completely untrue. It is shaped by the profit-seeking behaviors of car manufacturers. In general, when you think a phenomenon is due to "the choices people make" (especially in the US), it probably is not.

Sorry but your posts sounds like a well rehearsed cliche you pulled out rather than a response to my comment.

I intentionally cited an example of someone having access to great density and transit (NYC) but making a different choice. The Toyota motor corporation doesn't seem to be in the mix on my decision here. Do you have something to elaborate here?

As for "especially in the US..." part, really? On simple Googling, seems like France has over 80% household rate of car ownership, and Japan has something close to 80% (two random countries I pulled) so while US is obviously higher, it doesn't seem like an obviously US phenomenon.

I may be off on what you are trying to say here but in my defense you haven't actually articulated an argument.

Re: The force that shapes everything around us: Parking

#300

Post by NoboruWataya »

nradov wrote: post #169
pavel_lishin wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I am fully in favor of walkable neighborhoods and reducing the need to drive. But lack of parking is just not a stressor that most Americans worry about. Tell that to my local Facebook & Nextdoor groups.

You aren't looking at a representative sample. Spend some time talking to people outside of dense cities. Parking doesn't even make their top 10 list of concerns. Even in regions like the SF Bay Area outside of San Francisco proper there is abundant parking near most homes, retail, and workplaces. Now I agree that devoting so much valuable real estate to parking is rather wasteful and we ought to eliminate some of th…

> Spend some time talking to people outside of dense cities.

Are you sure this gives you a representative sample of Americans?

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