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The force that shapes everything around us: Parking

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Re: The force that shapes everything around us: Parking

#51

Post by elijaht »

I live car-free in NYC. A large appeal of NYC to me was not having to park. I don't ~mind~ driving, but I absolutely hated having to deal with finding parking when I lived in other cities. Parking generally makes me feel stressed (competition for free spots), or makes me pay (using something like SpotHero makes it easy to find a spot, but costs me).

It's not even just major cities either- I'm frequently in a college town in Illinois and parking downtown is a nightmare, and can easily add 10 minutes to your trip time, AND it's paid. Visiting a city I'm not familiar with can add some stress too as you don't know the best parking, unlike cities you are familiar with.

NYC has problems of it's own (trains are generally reliable, but tend to have delays right when you need them), but for $33 a week I can get to most major neighborhoods in 30 minutes, walking straight to my destination. Add in $40 for a couple cabs when I prioritize a quicker trip, and I have amazing access to my city for less than $100/week.

Re: The force that shapes everything around us: Parking

#52

Post by revscat »

kelseyfrog wrote: post #10

What else can be done? Universal lot sharing agreements, shared parking, and annulling reserved parking stipulations. Especially the later is a structural factor in the oversupply of parking. It's the parking equivalent of circuit-switching networks - which naturally results in the oversupply of circuits. Mutatis mutandis for all things parking. If one is to admit that these played a role in the oversupply of parking…

> What else can be done?

Reduce the regulatory regimes that force cars on business owners and individuals: eliminate street level parking requirements for property owners, create car-free zones in city centers, declare war on Saudi Arabia, prioritize foot traffic in new commercial development, set minimums for bike/pedestrian friendly mileage, decrease the number of single family residences and increase multi-family domiciles.

There's a lot.

Re: The force that shapes everything around us: Parking

#53

Post by throwbadubadu »

Mountain_Skies wrote: post #40
damnesian wrote: post #23

>You could imagine a world in which streets were pedestrianized and where we planted trees and gardens and in what is currently space reserved for parking, and closed streets, outside schools, so kids can have places to play. I would love to see a LOT more of this in urban centers. I live in a college town that is about the same size as Iowa City. Iowa City has taken the step of closing off their downtown and making…

A college town's context is very different than that of the central business district and inner city of a large metropolitan area. Context doesn't just matter, it's one of, if not the most, important aspects to consider when selecting a development pattern. You can't turn downtown St. Lous into downtown Iowa City or even 'downtown' Seoul, South Korea. Dreamers hate this reality and will contort their assertions every…

But those contexts and also such "contexts transformations" exist, so why possible at some places and unthinkable at others? Just saying "dreamer hits reality hard" is a bit destructive, arrogant, and apparently not the complete necessary truth?

Re: The force that shapes everything around us: Parking

#54

Post by josephcsible »

giraffe_lady wrote: post #47
josephcsible wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> it'd be good to make cities painful to drive in This is the wrong approach. Don't intentionally make driving worse for anyone, anywhere, ever. If you want people to use transit instead, then improve it until it's a better option than driving is today.

No, it is the correct approach. It is somewhat a zero-sum game at least in urban centers. Driving is cheap because free and cheap parking is widely available, and car speed is prioritized over other factors including pedestrian safety. Some of the huge volume of parking has to be given over to other transit modes, which will increase demand and eventually price for what remains. Urban speed limits need to be lower, p…

> It is somewhat a zero-sum game at least in urban centers. Driving is cheap because free and cheap parking is widely available, and car speed is prioritized over other factors including pedestrian safety.

I've never seen an urban center where "free and cheap parking is widely available", or one with a speed limit above 25.

Re: The force that shapes everything around us: Parking

#55

Post by balfirevic »

ttymck wrote: post #8
falcolas wrote: post #6

I think you need to go one level deeper: People needing to move non-trivial distances for periodic tasks shapes everything. Cars, and thus car parking, come about because of this need. Even before cars existed, roads and parking (such as hitching posts and stables) still existed because people needed to move. And even bicycles (electric or not) need parking too. There are startups dedicated to creating automated bike…

Why do I need to go to the mall? Because there is no retail zoning closer to my home.

My city has plenty of all kinds of shops where people live, but they (and I) still go to malls because shops there are larger and better equipped, there are more of them and you can walk between them at nice temperature and protected from the rain.

Re: The force that shapes everything around us: Parking

#56

Post by dublinben »

Mountain_Skies wrote: post #40
damnesian wrote: post #23

>You could imagine a world in which streets were pedestrianized and where we planted trees and gardens and in what is currently space reserved for parking, and closed streets, outside schools, so kids can have places to play. I would love to see a LOT more of this in urban centers. I live in a college town that is about the same size as Iowa City. Iowa City has taken the step of closing off their downtown and making…

A college town's context is very different than that of the central business district and inner city of a large metropolitan area. Context doesn't just matter, it's one of, if not the most, important aspects to consider when selecting a development pattern. You can't turn downtown St. Lous into downtown Iowa City or even 'downtown' Seoul, South Korea. Dreamers hate this reality and will contort their assertions every…

Downtown St. Louis used to look like Iowa City though, before it was ruined by "urban renewal" and automobiles in the 20th century.[0][1] It was deliberately transformed from one into the other, and can just as deliberately be transformed back again.

[0] https://www.pinterest.com/pin/91127592440641982/

[1] https://www.stlmag.com/history/pedestrian-deaths-streets-dow...

Re: The force that shapes everything around us: Parking

#57

Post by xnx »

josephcsible wrote: post #16
xnx wrote: post #13

Seems like parking is a side effect for people's preference for larger houses and yards. Convince people to live in smaller houses and share walls with their neighbors, and the parking situation would change dramatically.

> live in smaller houses and share walls with their neighbors Doing either of those things makes your standard of living worse.

That's often true. I've also read about a lot of situations in rural areas where the nearest neighbor might be 1/2 mile away, but they are absolutely crazy about property lines.

Re: The force that shapes everything around us: Parking

#58

Post by dublinben »

josephcsible wrote: post #28
the_snooze wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're describing urban environments. A lot of people live in those places already. But a lot of people prefer to live elsewhere. Differences in preference is fine. What doesn't make sense though is driving in urban environments, especially single-occupant vehicles that make up the vast majority of motor traffic in major cities. Keep the suburbs. But I think it'd be good to make cities painful to drive in for all but…

> it'd be good to make cities painful to drive in This is the wrong approach. Don't intentionally make driving worse for anyone, anywhere, ever. If you want people to use transit instead, then improve it until it's a better option than driving is today.

Road space in cities is a zero-sum game. Currently cars command the vast majority of it, with obvious consequences.

Highly efficient uses of space, like dedicated bus lanes, directly transfer road space from cars to improve transit. This necessarily makes driving "worse" in the short term, until enough marginal drivers shift to the now-improved busses, leaving the car lanes quicker and less congested.

In most cities, cars are physically obstructing better transit, which makes traffic worse for everyone involved.

Re: The force that shapes everything around us: Parking

#59

Post by Mountain_Skies »

xnx wrote: post #13

Seems like parking is a side effect for people's preference for larger houses and yards. Convince people to live in smaller houses and share walls with their neighbors, and the parking situation would change dramatically.

Density and diversity are opposing forces. Since diversity is now the absolute highest value in western culture, density can never be anything other than dysfunctional or a lament.

Re: The force that shapes everything around us: Parking

#60

Post by francisofascii »

> catastrophically mismanaged the way we provide parking in this country > it’s not properly priced

It is was interesting how complex the parking situation can be. So many factors come into play when planning a trip to raise my anxiety levels. Factors include: likelihood of availability given your timing, safely of vehicle, price (anywhere from free to $60 a day), time limits, proximity to desired location.

I think I would like some sort of reservation system, but I am sure that would come with other unforeseen issues, like rick people reserving everything at all times.

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