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The force that shapes everything around us: Parking

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Re: The force that shapes everything around us: Parking

#221

Post by Reubachi »

Cockbrand wrote: post #125
david2ndaccount wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Part of the problem is you can’t just convert an area to a pedestrian area as people still need to be able to get there. You need to construct low cost parking garages around the area so people can still get there.

Comments like this make me appreciate living in a city that has a pretty comprehensive public transport coverage, and where bicycling is at least tolerable. The city you describe seems to be only usable by car.

There's currently very little incentive to pedestrianize actual problem cities from all concerned parties. Because pedestrians are still largely able to bike, walk, bus etc just fine. And drivers are largely able to commute/park just fine.

We need to be honest that the folks most concerned (rightfully so) with urban car congestion are wealthy upper class people who moved TO the cities for their upperclass nature. Should we totally upend one of these groups in an attempt to solve an unsolvable problem for both groups?

Bit of rambling but I am fascinated by this problem.

Re: The force that shapes everything around us: Parking

#222

Post by _Wintermute »

pharmakom wrote: post #157
ghayes wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I never understood why you can’t do this to say 10% of city roads. That way there’s still car accessibility and you can continue to grow public transit, as well. Personally I think the majority of roads should be reclaimed to pedestrians and tracked rail cars. The only exception would be street-local deliveries/residents can enter and drive at say 3mph yielding to all pedestrians.

People literally took to the streets (ironic, I know) when they tried this in London, UK

A vocal minority, who largely lived outside of London.

Re: The force that shapes everything around us: Parking

#224

Post by inconceivable »

CalRobert wrote: post #67
josephcsible wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are unfortunately some people who say that we should abolish suburbs and force everyone to live in a city like that.

Who is saying this? At most, what I've seen is people saying we should not be forced to build _only_ this type of dwelling in a given place.

HN is filled with people who are deeply troubled by the way other people live their lives.

Re: The force that shapes everything around us: Parking

#225

Post by davidw »

iso1631 wrote: post #202
davidw wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think many people are truly anti-car activists. Just that we need to redimension their absolute centrality to so many policies and budgets. I'm involved in pro-housing politics and it's just amazing how many people are like "well, ok, sure, people need a place to live and all, but let's think FIRST about where to store the automobiles. If that works out, then I guess we can build some housing". They don't say…

In the UK we build houses without enough parking and the whole area becomes horrendous. The idea I get from reading about US "pro housing" people is that if you don't provide parking, people will still have a car and still park. In reality in the UK every patch of open space, including pavements (sidewalks) become car storage facilities. housing estates with 4 bed houses with just 1 car parking space (plus a garage w…

What is 'horrendous' is people not having a place to live. Cars parked here and there is not great, but it's not nearly as bad as not having enough housing.

I've heard that UK zoning and land use is perhaps even worse than the US.

Re: The force that shapes everything around us: Parking

#226

Post by niam »

kdmccormick wrote: post #184
niam wrote: post #177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You probably interact with the types of people who are more likely to spend time in the suburbs, by dint of living in a suburb. "Affording" a car in Boston is stressful as hell even beyond the cost, and I wouldn't recommend it. My friends who both live and work in the city don't own cars. I ditched my car when I moved into city limits, and ride an EUC, bike, or train to work. The suburbs would have nothing for me if…

This is overly black and white IMO. For the million or so of us who live in the "first ring suburbs", e.g. Somerville, it's common to own a car for out-of-the-city trips, but use walking/biking/transit for day to day life and going out on the weekends.

Not trying to be black or white about it. I'm not extrapolating my experience, only offering what it is. If I didn't, the prevailing and only observation in this thread would be that it's uncommon to not own a car. And that doesn't match my experience at all, as someone who lives and works here.

Though my anecdote is pretty heavily skewed the other direction towards skaters and the types of people who own PEVs.

Re: The force that shapes everything around us: Parking

#227

Post by matt_kantor »

dublinben wrote: post #189
falcolas wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Every city in the US used to have a robust public transit system. Every major urban center, perhaps. No city in Montana (I'll go so far as to say the midwest, minus perhaps Chicago) has a "robust" public transit system. And even when we create a perfect 15 minute utopia, people will still need one-off transportation on a periodic basis to spots more than 15 minutes away. Doctor visits, specialized purchases, bulk o…

It took me less than a minute to confirm that Billings Montana did, in fact, used to have an electric trolley system 100+ years ago.[0] Just like nearly every other US city at one time. [0] https://billingsgazette.com/streetcars/image_1048a3b1-20c3-5...

So did the tiny city of Bozeman (I just got back from a trip there).

Re: The force that shapes everything around us: Parking

#228

Post by dahwolf »

throw0101a wrote: post #61
lucumo wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nonsense. This is only true if you live in an inner city bubble. Cars are pretty popular ways of getting about in the suburbs and rural areas.

Oh the Urbanity recently visited the Netherlands and did a profile video, "The Fascinating Human-Scale Urbanism of Dutch Suburbia": * https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nImFJ7KKjAo > Cars are pretty popular ways of getting about in the suburbs and rural areas. But how much are cars needed on a day-to-day basis for day-to-day errands? I don't think any is saying that they are not useful (at times), but you can have them…

I'm Dutch and I want to push back against the glorification of our infrastructure. To comment on that video specifically:

Yes, fully on board with the narrower streets, "hiding" parking, having some shared public space like playgrounds. These are all good things.

But there's a flip side to this coin. This isn't necessarily a desired "way of life", it's what naturally evolved due to severe space constraints.

I specifically take offense at high cost dense suburbia. You pay through the nose but still are not in some cool city. You have a tiny house and possibly noisy neighbors as well as less privacy.

Suburbia can be denser but than it must be cheap. Dense expensive suburbia is the worst of all worlds.

Re: The force that shapes everything around us: Parking

#229

Post by ska »

staringback wrote: post #219
kibwen wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sold my car years ago and moved to Boston. I'll never go back to live anywhere that requires me to own a car. I bike or walk everywhere, and what makes me hopeful is that biking infrastructure in Boston (and neighboring cities like Cambridge) has improved dramatically in the years since I've been here and just keeps getting better. Google tells me that the average TCO of car ownership in the US was $10,728 in 2022. B…

> Google tells me that the average TCO of car ownership in the US was $10,728 in 2022 Every time I hear this insane number I have a good laugh. I own 3 cars myself and my total cost of ownership is nowhere near that high combined.

I always have the same gut reaction - then I realize I know people who lose at least 10k every 2-3 years on a new vehicle; one that they are financing and driving 2+ hours a day. So factor in gas and insurance etc., you can see it.

Re: The force that shapes everything around us: Parking

#230

Post by manzanarama »

nradov wrote: post #105
elijaht wrote: post #51

I live car-free in NYC. A large appeal of NYC to me was not having to park. I don't ~mind~ driving, but I absolutely hated having to deal with finding parking when I lived in other cities. Parking generally makes me feel stressed (competition for free spots), or makes me pay (using something like SpotHero makes it easy to find a spot, but costs me). It's not even just major cities either- I'm frequently in a college…

I travel around the USA a fair amount. In the vast majority of cities, parking just isn't a problem. I drive my car where I want to go and park. Sometimes I have to pay. But the places where no parking is available are very rare. I am fully in favor of walkable neighborhoods and reducing the need to drive. But lack of parking is just not a stressor that most Americans worry about.

I agree there is this strange obsession with fixing super dense city areas, increasing density and public transit, getting rid of cars and parking, etc.. Im not sure why it is such a big cause right now. Its a bit confusing to see it so high on so many people's priority list.

I even bike to work every day since I choose to live very close to my office building, but I don't understand this desire.

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