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The internet didn’t kill counterculture, it's just not on Instagram (2021)

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Re: The internet didn’t kill counterculture, it's just not on Instagram (2021)

#251

Post by username332211 »

ravenstine wrote: post #19

The real counterculture right now is non-participation . In a world where virtually everything is either designed to completely waste your time or fail and not be repairable, it's a highly radical act to stop consuming like the 95%, preferring to spend time with other humans in reality doing something that isn't technological. In spite of the popular world pushing the message that you will be fulfilled living in virt…

The living in a virtual reality and consuming insects (or owning nothing and being happy, or whatever other creepy thing the Davos crowd comes up with) part is rejected completely by the predominant culture. The WEF is therefore closer to counter-cutural movement than you are.

A counterculture doesn't have to be a thing for commoners. It can be limited to the upper classes.

The most famous example is probably the Socrates and his academy. Athenians saw him as a dangerous sophist that corrupted the youth, a common trope with regards to counter-cultural leaders. Eventually he was executed for that very reason.

Of course, by the time the man was executed, young aristocrats who had been under Socrates' tutelage had killed about 5% of the citizens in an attempt to abolish democracy and establish a proto-totalitarian regime in the Spartan model, which may or may not prove the Athenians right.

Re: The internet didn’t kill counterculture, it's just not on Instagram (2021)

#252

Post by ceejayoz »

local_crmdgeon wrote: post #250
ceejayoz wrote: post #246

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They said "the billionaire right", not "the billionaires". That'll be the Koch brothers, Peter Thiel, Harlan Crow, Paul Singer, etc. You'd probably count Musk in there now, too.

That set is much smaller than the people that own the Washington Post, NY Times, etc. The DNC receives more money from Wall Street than the GOP now. Same with Tech. Believe what you want, but the Right is mostly driven by small donors now.

The NYT isn't owned by a billionaire. Bezos largely avoids donations (https://www.nytimes.com/2018/09/05/technology/jeff-bezos-ama...) and "from Wall Street" isn't the same as "from billionaires".

Hand-waving away right-wing billionaires as if they don't have an impact is disingenuous.

As for small donors, Trump bucked the mold here a bit; it's not typically true for Republicans:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2022/07/21/gops-2022...

> Democrats have long relied more on small-dollar donations, and that trend continues today. Some key Republican candidates are also relying heavily on wealthy benefactors like Peter Thiel funding super PACs to support them.

> One of the stories of the GOP in the Trump era was its ability to close the gap on small-dollar fundraising — a gap that has yawned again with Trump out of office, at least through these two platforms. (Not all small-dollar donations are routed through them, but they are the parties’ respective choices for facilitating such donations.)

> And now comes more data, which shows that Democratic small-dollar donors — one key measure of how engaged a party’s base is — appear significantly more motivated than their GOP counterparts.

Re: The internet didn’t kill counterculture, it's just not on Instagram (2021)

#253

Post by s1artibartfast »

RC_ITR wrote: post #245
s1artibartfast wrote: post #244

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I heartily disagree. Choice is central to rejection. Someone born blind by circumstance is not rejecting vision. Some who blinds themselves or refuses restorative treatment is rejecting vision. Re Marxism, Most people reject Marxism by not desiring it or desiring to implement it. They have the choice to advocate for it or vote for Marxists, but in general do not. However, some do choose it and there is a small US com…

But surely you agree that those people who vote for it do not live in Marxist societies/cultures? They live in cultures completely counter to Marxism. In practice they reject Marxism because they do not live its principles.

I dont think that constitutes rejection of Marxism. If you do everything within your power to bring about communism, are you not rejecting it.

If there is more in your power to do and you choose not to, then that is rejection.

This comes back to rejection being a matter of choice.

Does a slave reject freedom, because they dont have it and cant obtain it? Is a cancer patient who cant afford treatment rejecting treatment? Of course we wouldnt say these things because rejection implies option and choice.

Re: The internet didn’t kill counterculture, it's just not on Instagram (2021)

#254

Post by the-printer »

There is no obvious counter-cultural movement in the West because there is nothing deemed subversive enough by major institutions that hasn't been commercialized to some extent. If we are viewing things on a political spectrum, the right and the left each claim to be bucking the values and traditions of "the establishment" with the approval and encouragement of both sides of the "establishment" one way or the other.

Re: The internet didn’t kill counterculture, it's just not on Instagram (2021)

#256

Post by local_crmdgeon »

ceejayoz wrote: post #252
local_crmdgeon wrote: post #250

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That set is much smaller than the people that own the Washington Post, NY Times, etc. The DNC receives more money from Wall Street than the GOP now. Same with Tech. Believe what you want, but the Right is mostly driven by small donors now.

The NYT isn't owned by a billionaire. Bezos largely avoids donations ( https://www.nytimes.com/2018/09/05/technology/jeff-bezos-ama... ) and "from Wall Street" isn't the same as "from billionaires". Hand-waving away right-wing billionaires as if they don't have an impact is disingenuous. As for small donors, Trump bucked the mold here a bit; it's not typically true for Republicans: https://www.washingtonpost.com/poli…

I get you feel strongly about this. It's OK to have won, that's the goal, right? To no longer be the counter culture? To get what you want?

Re: The internet didn’t kill counterculture, it's just not on Instagram (2021)

#257

Post by hutzlibu »

jononomo wrote: post #222
hutzlibu wrote: post #218

Earlier quoted context omitted.

First, who did taught them about all that, that annoys you? Secondly, maybe try seeing more people under 30 regulary with an open mind. I am sure you will eventually find someone not engaged with that. Just like you can find people over 30, who are still open to the world.

what?

1. If the youth is messed up, it is the fault of the older generation who failed to teach them right. That would be you and me.

2. Maybe you have distant memories left, when you yourself were young. Do you think, you would have liked to learn from someone, who thinks all young people are stupid?

Re: The internet didn’t kill counterculture, it's just not on Instagram (2021)

#258

Post by dontupvoteme »

hammock wrote: post #102
ravenstine wrote: post #19

The real counterculture right now is non-participation . In a world where virtually everything is either designed to completely waste your time or fail and not be repairable, it's a highly radical act to stop consuming like the 95%, preferring to spend time with other humans in reality doing something that isn't technological. In spite of the popular world pushing the message that you will be fulfilled living in virt…

Networks of cottage industry. During Covid lockdowns I joined a powerlifting gym that was a startup in an old dry cleaners, had to “try out” to get in (make sure I wasn’t a narc), was the only gym in a city of 5+ million that was open and they had papered over the windows so prying eyes couldn’t observe the no-masks inside. I had the fewest tats in the place, you only wear black, there will never be any TVs and the h…

Sounds a lot like the good german diskos - they cover your phone's camera and if they see you try and take it off there will be repercussions.

>They have both a pro-2A plaque and a trans flag on the wall. One of the co-owners is gay and films onlyfans in the gym at night

heh, that's good though. the oppressed are the ones that should worry about armaments the most -- stonewall riots and such. Previously Haymarket.

Re: The internet didn’t kill counterculture, it's just not on Instagram (2021)

#259

Post by nemo44x »

the-printer wrote: post #254

There is no obvious counter-cultural movement in the West because there is nothing deemed subversive enough by major institutions that hasn't been commercialized to some extent. If we are viewing things on a political spectrum, the right and the left each claim to be bucking the values and traditions of "the establishment" with the approval and encouragement of both sides of the "establishment" one way or the other.

Indeed. The system will co-opt whatever is valuable and fortify its power. It’s not long for it to become the official policy of your favorite credit card and bank. Well, Occupy didn’t but that was sort of just swept away into something that could.

Re: The internet didn’t kill counterculture, it's just not on Instagram (2021)

#260

Post by OfSanguineFire »

jehb wrote: post #197
OfSanguineFire wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I work seasonally and spend the other half of the year trying to disconnect and focus on real-life, outdoor hobbies. Even if I leave my phone turned off, the majority of the people around me, young and old alike, are on their phones. They feel a need to document what they are doing on social media. Even in countercultures that draw on the 1960s hippies for examples, people might frown on photos going on social media,…

> I work seasonally and spend the other half of the year trying to disconnect and focus on real-life, outdoor hobbies. A bit off-topic, but I'm curious if you have any advice for finding seasonal jobs? It feels a bit ironic to be working in tech, making twice what I actually need to live off of, but with no real option to just work half as much.

Sorry, I don’t work in tech at all but a different profession, one where seasonal work is easily arranged. I’m on HN because I learned shell/Python/Emacs as part of installing Linux decades ago and so I enjoy a “news for nerds” site, and I ended up here just because there was little place else to go after the decline of Slashdot.
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