Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

The internet didn’t kill counterculture, it's just not on Instagram (2021)

documentjournal.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

91–100 of 292 posts

Re: The internet didn’t kill counterculture, it's just not on Instagram (2021)

#91

Post by maxbond »

Pannoniae wrote: post #72
giraffe_lady wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know why you needed to derail a good point with the insect conspiracy theory dog whistle tho. If me and the homies get together weekly for bible study and fried crickets does that not fit into what you're describing?

The best indicator for "is this a conspiracy theory" is "is this true, or at least plausible?" The "live in virtual reality and consume insects" is a point pushed by at least a few people, so it's not a baseless conspiracy theory. You might say they are not influential or whatever, but it's not like this was made up on the spot. Even if it was a baseless conspiracy theory, it doesn't detract from the value of the res…

No, the best indicator is, "does this rhetoric serve to promote an agenda more than it serves to explain a phenomenon we did not understand previously?"

Lots of conspiracy theories are plausible. With the sheer number of them, some of them will have strong elements of truth, even.

Conspiracy theory isn't an epistemological designation, it's a political and rhetorical one. [ETA: To clarify, by political, I mean "within political science" not "for political ends". That also happens, of course, it's just not what I refer to here.] A conspiracy theory purports to explain something, but actually serves to justify an ideology by stealth.

Lots of anti-LGBTQ ideology disguises itself as concern about transhumanism ("they want to turn us into soy boy sheep plugged into virtual reality" sort of rhetoric).

Re: The internet didn’t kill counterculture, it's just not on Instagram (2021)

#92

Post by tekla »

mihaic wrote: post #68
sodapopcan wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you're missing the point of the comment. Saying "don't do these things" isn't helpful because people are going to do them regardless. OP is saying it should not be on the mainstream internet, ie, the open "gatekeeping required" statement.

That post does make it sounds very cool to do all these things though, so I'd say it's good to have a balancing post that says that risking body parts for a thrill is uncool.

That's just like your opinion man.

Re: The internet didn’t kill counterculture, it's just not on Instagram (2021)

#93

Post by local_crmdgeon »

acuozzo wrote: post #66
api wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think this is the biggest argument against deplatforming: it actually makes them cool. Part of the appeal of these ideologies is clearly that they are offensive, not permitted on mainstream platforms, and therefore are something that their participants can "own" and that won't be co-opted by consumerism. It's the same thing that fueled "Satanic" rock and similar things. Fascism is devil music. That most people are…

> I think this is the biggest argument against deplatforming: it actually makes them cool. The thing that mystifies me is that when parents get in on something it usually nukes the coolness factor, but the far right has an overwhelming supply of 50+ year olds on just about every platform and this has had no impact on its rise in popularity among the teens and twenty-somethings.

That's because Boomer Humor is actually really funny when you get the unsanitized version. The lame Boomer jokes are just the ones that HR approves of.

Re: The internet didn’t kill counterculture, it's just not on Instagram (2021)

#94

Post by jononomo »

krapp wrote: post #45
hutzlibu wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Erm, counter culture has nothing to do with age per se.

"never trust anyone over 30" was a maxim for a reason. It's difficult to fight culture once you've become invested in the status quo, and so alienated by the cutting edge that modernity disgusts you.

My motto is "don't trust anyone under 30" -- because in my experience they just don't know enough yet to have valuable opinions and also because the kids these days have a value system that deifies mental illness and victimhood, and I'm just not interested in the opinions of people who operate from a mentally-ill victimhood stance.

Re: The internet didn’t kill counterculture, it's just not on Instagram (2021)

#95

Post by jahewson »

basisword wrote: post #42
unpopularopp wrote: post #24

In 2023 counterculture is right wing but that's a hard to swallow pill for a lot

In what sense? The last 24 years in the US have/will be split equally between Democrat and Republican presidents. In the UK the majority of this century has been run by the Conservative party. The US Supreme Court is 'right leaning' and that's unlikely to change anytime soon. How can the right wing be the counter culture when it holds most of the power? [Obviously just looking at two countries I'm familiar with but r…

> The last 24 years in the US have/will be split equally between Democrat and Republican presidents.

By this logic the counterculture can’t be left-wing either.

Re: The internet didn’t kill counterculture, it's just not on Instagram (2021)

#96

Post by Pannoniae »

maxbond wrote: post #91
Pannoniae wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The best indicator for "is this a conspiracy theory" is "is this true, or at least plausible?" The "live in virtual reality and consume insects" is a point pushed by at least a few people, so it's not a baseless conspiracy theory. You might say they are not influential or whatever, but it's not like this was made up on the spot. Even if it was a baseless conspiracy theory, it doesn't detract from the value of the res…

No, the best indicator is, "does this rhetoric serve to promote an agenda more than it serves to explain a phenomenon we did not understand previously?" Lots of conspiracy theories are plausible. With the sheer number of them, some of them will have strong elements of truth, even. Conspiracy theory isn't an epistemological designation, it's a political and rhetorical one. [ETA: To clarify, by political, I mean "withi…

"Conspiracy theories isn't an epistemological designation, it's a political and rhetorical one." Well, that's the problem. If the word was only used for baseless things, it would be taken seriously.

But nowadays, "conspiracy theory" is mostly used to discredit legitimate opinions or ideologies just because the powers being don't like them.

Re: The internet didn’t kill counterculture, it's just not on Instagram (2021)

#97

Post by safety1st »

unpopularopp wrote: post #24

In 2023 counterculture is right wing but that's a hard to swallow pill for a lot

I don't think it's really right wing, there is an exodus of people from the Left as it becomes increasingly ideological, they may dally with the Right a bit - I think the first mention of this phenomenon was way back in 2014 by Scott Alexander as the "grey tribe" that was beginning to form: https://slatestarcodex.com/2014/09/30/i-can-tolerate-anythin...

But these people aren't necessarily conservatives, at least as their defining attribute, they frequently maintain liberal values after their exile from the increasingly illiberal world of the left. They very rarely turn into gun-toting and God-fearing, card-carrying Republicans. Two great examples - Tulsi Gabbard and Naomi Wolf recently doing strangely cordial interviews with Jordan Peterson, you could hardly call either of those women conservative Republicans, but they get along with him splendidly on the topic of why the Left is f*'ed up.

I think the article hits the nail on the head with the line "To be truly countercultural today, in a time of tech hegemony, one has to, above all, betray the platform" - this really is the essence of it, it so happens that the mainstream platforms are pretty Left, so betraying them feels like an anti-Left thing to do, but to do so isn't necessarily Right.... it's a counter-culture going off in its own direction. The mainstream may call them Right wing as a slur to discredit them, whether they are or not.

Re: The internet didn’t kill counterculture, it's just not on Instagram (2021)

#98

Post by local_crmdgeon »

unpopularopp wrote: post #24

In 2023 counterculture is right wing but that's a hard to swallow pill for a lot

Yes. When Disney, Ratheon, the DoJ, the police, City Hall, Ford, GM, Delta, Google, Facebook and Apple support your movement, you are no longer the counterculture. It doesn't matter how hard you want to be.

Re: The internet didn’t kill counterculture, it's just not on Instagram (2021)

#99

Post by [deleted] »

ravenstine wrote: post #19

The real counterculture right now is non-participation . In a world where virtually everything is either designed to completely waste your time or fail and not be repairable, it's a highly radical act to stop consuming like the 95%, preferring to spend time with other humans in reality doing something that isn't technological. In spite of the popular world pushing the message that you will be fulfilled living in virt…

[deleted]

Re: The internet didn’t kill counterculture, it's just not on Instagram (2021)

#100

Post by bityard »

Llamasponge wrote: post #12

In a time where tolerance and respect for minorities is slowly becoming mainstream, you could argue that the far-right has become counterculture. The far-right is VERY prevalent on both Instagram, Twitter and other social media.

There have always been countercultures which exist on the far-right (and far-left) of the political spectrum. But merely being far-right and far-left does not itself mean that its members belong to a counterculture. A defining feature of a counterculture is that its members consciously and deliberately reject mainstream values and norms. The people on the far-right/left may lead perfectly mainstream lives but hop on social media to prattle on about their extreme (compared to the median) political views.

Political extremism has always existed, but social media algorithms (and yes that includes the HN comment system) incentivize controversy while penalizing moderate, rational viewpoints as "unpopular." So these extreme views tend to bubble to the top of people's feeds, making them appear "very prevalent" to the average person.

This is one of MANY reasons that I have nothing to do with (most) social media anymore.

Post reply on HN