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VanMoof encryption key exporter

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Re: VanMoof encryption key exporter

#101

Post by blackbeans »

lm28469 wrote: post #84
blackbeans wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While what you are saying is true and the market is moving towards long term solutions because of environmental reasons, at the moment the lifespan of electric components in bikes is usually set at 5 years with 2 years of warranty for the consumer. Bikes are made of aluminium these days instead of steel, which gives them a lifespan of about 10 years, certainly not 30. If you buy an ebike, you must be prepared for mai…

> Bikes are made of aluminium these days instead of steel, which gives them a lifespan of about 10 years, certainly not 30. Absolute bullshit, especially for a city bike. Stress cycle is an issue but city bikes are over engineered and don't see a lot of stress compared to every other type of bikes. I've used alu bikes over 30 years old daily and I had no issues whatsoever, that's how I went to school everyday for 3 y…

My experience as long term employee of a big bicycle manufacturer is different.

Yes, aluminium can survive a long time. But in general steel has a better chance to survive. The category of city bikes are low cost bikes, and the frames are as well. They are not so over engineered as you think as it is a very competitive market. The first generation VanMoof frames for instance, were prone to breaking.

While it is possible for a aluminium frame to reach 30 years lifespan, in practice the lifespan is shorter. This is because steel is more forgiving, it can handle dents and scratches where aluminium is more prone to breaking. Also the frames are usually hand welded and this can too be a weak point as it is hard to perfectly weld aluminum. It doesn't mean you can't ride a 30 year old aluminium bike or that it will auto destruct. It does mean that the bike is unlikely to reach that age.

Re: VanMoof encryption key exporter

#102

Post by nixass »

mattio wrote: post #56
Arnt wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What did Van Moof make, exactly? Do you think they were normal bikes? They made expensive e-bikes with theft recovery features. They have features that make it possible to trace and locate them, and Van Moof would actually do this. For people who spend €3-4k on an easily stolen object that the police won't care about, that's a unique selling point.

I am not sure why everyone thinks they are expensive. Just the bike is about 2000 euro. There are eBikes costing 4000 euro. My van moof was about 2800 because I bought the 2 packages taking care of theft and repairs. Because of their image I never have to lock the bike besides their amazing kick lock bike, so getting on and off the bike with locking and unlocking it is a matter of seconds. This is not expensive at al…

> I am not sure why everyone thinks they are expensive. > There are eBikes costing 4000 euro.

Is this coping mechanism where you justify yourself you got a good deal from them?

Re: VanMoof encryption key exporter

#103

Post by abyssin »

holoduke wrote: post #76
mattio wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am not sure why everyone thinks they are expensive. Just the bike is about 2000 euro. There are eBikes costing 4000 euro. My van moof was about 2800 because I bought the 2 packages taking care of theft and repairs. Because of their image I never have to lock the bike besides their amazing kick lock bike, so getting on and off the bike with locking and unlocking it is a matter of seconds. This is not expensive at al…

They are expensive. All parts are cheap chinese crap components. I had to dismantle the main motor because some slip ring got worn out. Turned out to be a cheap motor you can find in parts on Alibaba/expess. The brakes are bad. The electronics are bad. They almost always fail after a while. The only thing what is good about VanMoof are the looks. Everything else is just shit.

And where they could use standard pieces, they don’t. It took me ages to replace a bottom bracket because the cheap one they had installed was bent and replacement was nowhere to be found easily, except at their shop for an outrageous price.

Re: VanMoof encryption key exporter

#104

Post by clydethefrog »

dr_dshiv wrote: post #35
wjnc wrote: post #3

Don’t buy products made by VC funded firms! Especially not if it’s a real product and you value repairability and service. VanMoof made losses the size of their revenue. They made bikes… where’s the natural monopoly to be chased there?

Van Moof bikes are EVERYWHERE in Amsterdam. They obviously shouldn’t have taken so much investment. But if you can capture a latent market need like that, there probably is a lot of opportunity at scale, too.

There is a lot of bikes in Amsterdam in general. Van Moof just stands out because of their 1 marketing, 2 annoying signature noise whenever people bump into them, 3 loud owners that general use it as a status symbol and 4 joke status due to national Dutch publications writing about all the shortcomings of owning this bike.

I live in Groningen, a Dutch city that is even more suited for bikes, and I rarely spot any Van Moof here. There is a big amount of Swapfiets though, because there is a bigger demographic for a sturdy bike that costs 20 euro as month. You can have that bike in theory for 8 years and it still will not have the same cost as a Van Moof.

Re: VanMoof encryption key exporter

#105

Post by scotty79 »

haspok wrote: post #91
mattio wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am not sure why everyone thinks they are expensive. Just the bike is about 2000 euro. There are eBikes costing 4000 euro. My van moof was about 2800 because I bought the 2 packages taking care of theft and repairs. Because of their image I never have to lock the bike besides their amazing kick lock bike, so getting on and off the bike with locking and unlocking it is a matter of seconds. This is not expensive at al…

They are expensive for what is essentially a commuter bike. I think they simply chose a wrong strategy, because if you have a cheap(ish) bike and a good U-lock, you can leave it anywhere without much stress. It will most probably not be stolen (because the value of the bike is low), and if it does get stolen, then it is cheap to replace - you can buy at least 5 commuter bikes for the price of a fancy one. In fact, in…

How do you secure the battery with ulock? Or are there bikes with non-replaceble batteries? How do you charge them?

Re: VanMoof encryption key exporter

#106

Post by tgv »

jillesvangurp wrote: post #55
ano-ther wrote: post #8

Honest question: what’s the appeal of a bike that needs an internet connection & app to unlock?

The appeal is that thieves need to do the same thing. Which limits the value of the bike for them because it makes it easy to track them down. It's part of the theft protection. Which, if you've ever had your bike stolen is a big selling point for these bikes. Theft is a reason why I've never bothered with premium bikes. Because you can't take them anywhere and expect them to not get stolen. Van Moof changed that. Th…

Idk the Berlin market, but in The Netherlands, homebase of Swapfiets (literally: swap bike) as you probably know, a decent secondhand bike costs €100-200. Nobody comes to fix your tire, but if it doesn't get stolen, it's a lot cheaper than a Swapfiets. Still quite a few of my (younger!) colleagues have a Swapfiets. I don't really get it.

Re: VanMoof encryption key exporter

#107

Post by jillesvangurp »

midoridensha wrote: post #93
jillesvangurp wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The appeal is that thieves need to do the same thing. Which limits the value of the bike for them because it makes it easy to track them down. It's part of the theft protection. Which, if you've ever had your bike stolen is a big selling point for these bikes. Theft is a reason why I've never bothered with premium bikes. Because you can't take them anywhere and expect them to not get stolen. Van Moof changed that. Th…

>Theft is a reason why I've never bothered with premium bikes. Because you can't take them anywhere and expect them to not get stolen. Maybe where you live. Here in Tokyo, bike theft isn't a big problem, and there's lots of reasonably expensive bikes (and e-bikes) parked on the sidewalk with just a lock through the wheel spokes.

You'd be shocked anywhere in the Netherlands (I'm Dutch) at how common bike theft is. We have actual secured parking garages in many cities to counter the problem. The larger ones in Utrecht and Amsterdam have room for many thousands of bikes and they are used a lto.

Berlin where I currently live isn't much better but they've not yet introduced parking garages for bikes as far as I know.

Re: VanMoof encryption key exporter

#108

Post by scotty79 »

haspok wrote: post #98
moooo99 wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean, you can also easily spend >2k on a bike. In terms of e-bikes the prices for Vanmoof and their competitor Cowboy aren’t particularly cheap, but they aren’t incredibly out of line either.

Yeah, but for the price bump you get features which affect the ride of the bike directly (lower weight, better braking, easier shifting etc.). Of course there are diminishing returns, but a 2k bike is significantly better than a 1k bike in almost all aspects, and a 4k bike is also noticeably better than the 2k one. (Whether the price is worth it for you is another question). For me, theft-protecting a 4k bike which o…

I'm using a bike that I bought new for less than 100 euro from a big box shop. I've been using it for more than a decade with zero maintenance (apart from fixing occasional flat). It still works. It's just little stiff which is a feature because I can prop the handlebars against the wall and it stays like that because the weight of the bicycle is not enough to turn the handlebars. It's also heavy because it has suspension. I could buy lighter bicycle that runs smoother but riding a bicycle is an exercise for me. Why would I pay to make it easier?

Re: VanMoof encryption key exporter

#109

Post by estomagordo »

mvanbaak wrote: post #97
estomagordo wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I bought a new bike for €300 something in 2021, in NL. But it does seem like some stores hardly carry anything that costs below €1000.

e-bike with alarm and all other features like apple find my? This is about the VanMoof price, so you have to compare with bikes that bring in the same set of features.

If the features are nearly useless, like for instance an electric motor, then we can simply assign a very low weight to them when comparing.

Re: VanMoof encryption key exporter

#110

Post by haspok »

scotty79 wrote: post #105
haspok wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They are expensive for what is essentially a commuter bike. I think they simply chose a wrong strategy, because if you have a cheap(ish) bike and a good U-lock, you can leave it anywhere without much stress. It will most probably not be stolen (because the value of the bike is low), and if it does get stolen, then it is cheap to replace - you can buy at least 5 commuter bikes for the price of a fancy one. In fact, in…

How do you secure the battery with ulock? Or are there bikes with non-replaceble batteries? How do you charge them?

If I had an e-bike I would just take the battery with me. Minor inconvenience for security.
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