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VanMoof encryption key exporter

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Re: VanMoof encryption key exporter

#91

Post by haspok »

mattio wrote: post #56
Arnt wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What did Van Moof make, exactly? Do you think they were normal bikes? They made expensive e-bikes with theft recovery features. They have features that make it possible to trace and locate them, and Van Moof would actually do this. For people who spend €3-4k on an easily stolen object that the police won't care about, that's a unique selling point.

I am not sure why everyone thinks they are expensive. Just the bike is about 2000 euro. There are eBikes costing 4000 euro. My van moof was about 2800 because I bought the 2 packages taking care of theft and repairs. Because of their image I never have to lock the bike besides their amazing kick lock bike, so getting on and off the bike with locking and unlocking it is a matter of seconds. This is not expensive at al…

They are expensive for what is essentially a commuter bike. I think they simply chose a wrong strategy, because if you have a cheap(ish) bike and a good U-lock, you can leave it anywhere without much stress. It will most probably not be stolen (because the value of the bike is low), and if it does get stolen, then it is cheap to replace - you can buy at least 5 commuter bikes for the price of a fancy one. In fact, in the past 20 years I had exactly one bike stolen from me from an open basement where the bike was not locked, and there were construction works in the building (=my fault). I do have bikes worth >2k but I don't use them for commuting and I don't leave them around for more than 10 minutes even locked.

ps. I also happen to own a Brompton, which is another strategy - fold your bike so you can take it with you anywhere. Even it was heavily overpriced (~900 GBP IIRC), and it has propietary parts so servicing is not easy. My excuse for buying it is that it paid back it's price in about a year of commuting (by not having to pay for public transport).

Re: VanMoof encryption key exporter

#92

Post by midoridensha »

planb wrote: post #63
wjnc wrote: post #3

Don’t buy products made by VC funded firms! Especially not if it’s a real product and you value repairability and service. VanMoof made losses the size of their revenue. They made bikes… where’s the natural monopoly to be chased there?

While I think you're right, you could have said the same thing about Tesla cars - but it worked out in that case. The problem with VanMoof was that they prioritized growth over quality - which may be a side effect of taking VC money, but is plain dumb if you're selling physical goods that are expensive to fix. Just talk to anyone with a VanMoof or see the subreddit: Nearly every bike they sold required multiple repai…

This is why I only buy bikes with mid-to-high-end Shimano components. My bike is my daily transportation many days; putting up with this kind of unreliability is unthinkable.

Re: VanMoof encryption key exporter

#93

Post by midoridensha »

jillesvangurp wrote: post #55
ano-ther wrote: post #8

Honest question: what’s the appeal of a bike that needs an internet connection & app to unlock?

The appeal is that thieves need to do the same thing. Which limits the value of the bike for them because it makes it easy to track them down. It's part of the theft protection. Which, if you've ever had your bike stolen is a big selling point for these bikes. Theft is a reason why I've never bothered with premium bikes. Because you can't take them anywhere and expect them to not get stolen. Van Moof changed that. Th…

>Theft is a reason why I've never bothered with premium bikes. Because you can't take them anywhere and expect them to not get stolen.

Maybe where you live. Here in Tokyo, bike theft isn't a big problem, and there's lots of reasonably expensive bikes (and e-bikes) parked on the sidewalk with just a lock through the wheel spokes.

Re: VanMoof encryption key exporter

#94

Post by jonasdegendt »

This reminds me of Boosted Boards, which was also VC funded and got killed when Trumps China tariffs killed any profits they had on the hardware.

When Boosted went under years ago some people tracked down the manufacturers of the individual components and to this day you can buy brand new replacement motors. It'll be interesting to see if a market pops up for VanMoof replacement parts as well.

I sure hope so, I'm sitting on an S3 with a broken e-shifter. Support told me they didn't have any in stock and they'd let me know when they did. With hindsight I know now they probably hadn't been paying suppliers for a while now, and weren't getting any parts in because of that.

Re: VanMoof encryption key exporter

#95

Post by RamblingCTO »

Cthulhu_ wrote: post #38
Arnt wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What did Van Moof make, exactly? Do you think they were normal bikes? They made expensive e-bikes with theft recovery features. They have features that make it possible to trace and locate them, and Van Moof would actually do this. For people who spend €3-4k on an easily stolen object that the police won't care about, that's a unique selling point.

Note that when they first came out, they were actually pretty affordable; since then, competition and mass production spun up and you can get an e-bike for <€1K now, and they'll be less custom made, more generally available parts too. The brand's USP then became that they look and are pretty unique, which is cool on one hand, but they weren't able to make it financially viable. Probably because they relied on VC mone…

Any recommendations for an ebike < 1k? You also seem to be EU based :)

Re: VanMoof encryption key exporter

#96

Post by midoridensha »

lm28469 wrote: post #84
blackbeans wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While what you are saying is true and the market is moving towards long term solutions because of environmental reasons, at the moment the lifespan of electric components in bikes is usually set at 5 years with 2 years of warranty for the consumer. Bikes are made of aluminium these days instead of steel, which gives them a lifespan of about 10 years, certainly not 30. If you buy an ebike, you must be prepared for mai…

> Bikes are made of aluminium these days instead of steel, which gives them a lifespan of about 10 years, certainly not 30. Absolute bullshit, especially for a city bike. Stress cycle is an issue but city bikes are over engineered and don't see a lot of stress compared to every other type of bikes. I've used alu bikes over 30 years old daily and I had no issues whatsoever, that's how I went to school everyday for 3 y…

Old fashioned steel bike lovers live in an alternate reality where bikes not made of steel are all experiencing catastrophic frame failures left and right.

Re: VanMoof encryption key exporter

#97

Post by mvanbaak »

estomagordo wrote: post #77
foepys wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have the prices come down lately? When COVID hit, it was nearly impossible to find cheap new bikes.

I bought a new bike for €300 something in 2021, in NL. But it does seem like some stores hardly carry anything that costs below €1000.

e-bike with alarm and all other features like apple find my? This is about the VanMoof price, so you have to compare with bikes that bring in the same set of features.

Re: VanMoof encryption key exporter

#98

Post by haspok »

moooo99 wrote: post #80
estomagordo wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This is not expensive at all. I mean, you can get a regular bike for €300, €700 if you want to splurge. But of course, the downside of that would be that you'd get more exercise.

I mean, you can also easily spend >2k on a bike. In terms of e-bikes the prices for Vanmoof and their competitor Cowboy aren’t particularly cheap, but they aren’t incredibly out of line either.

Yeah, but for the price bump you get features which affect the ride of the bike directly (lower weight, better braking, easier shifting etc.). Of course there are diminishing returns, but a 2k bike is significantly better than a 1k bike in almost all aspects, and a 4k bike is also noticeably better than the 2k one. (Whether the price is worth it for you is another question). For me, theft-protecting a 4k bike which otherwise would be a 2.5k bike is nonsensical, because I don't need theft protection - basically you would be trying to sell me a 2.5k bike for 4k. No, thank you.

Re: VanMoof encryption key exporter

#99

Post by mvanbaak »

skerit wrote: post #66
Arnt wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What did Van Moof make, exactly? Do you think they were normal bikes? They made expensive e-bikes with theft recovery features. They have features that make it possible to trace and locate them, and Van Moof would actually do this. For people who spend €3-4k on an easily stolen object that the police won't care about, that's a unique selling point.

> They made expensive e-bikes with theft recovery features My husband's VanMoof bike got stolen in Ghent, they couldn't do shit about it.

Mine got stolen in Amsterdam, they couldn't find it, in 2 weeks I got a new one.

Re: VanMoof encryption key exporter

#100

Post by vultour »

jjav wrote: post #14
ano-ther wrote: post #8

Honest question: what’s the appeal of a bike that needs an internet connection & app to unlock?

> Honest question: what’s the appeal of a bike that needs an internet connection & app to unlock? I struggle to understand those who think something like that could be a good idea. Isn't it obvious that an app will not be around for as long as a bike can last? I have a bike from the early 90s, that's over 30 years. Does anyone think an app will be around even for 10 years, let alone 30+?

This is why I struggle updating my old PHP apps. It sure would be nice to refactor it into something newer, but I really don't want to run it on some VC-funded wet dream that disappears one day with 3 hours of notice.
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