Disney, Netflix, and more are fighting FTC's 'click to cancel' proposal • Hacker News Board

Re: Disney, Netflix, and more are fighting FTC's 'click to cancel' proposal

#191

Post by dylan604 » Thu, Jul 13, 2023, 4:59 PM UTC

lolinder wrote: post #161

dylan604 wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So the reps on the phone that I spoke to lied to me? After talking with Netflix, I then called my bank, and they acknowledged this service exists. What you're on about acting like I don't know what I'm talking about is absolute nonsense.

I'm suggesting that the reps on the phone and your bank were talking about issuer tokens. Source [0]. Besides, regardless of the means by which card updates are handled, it isn't fraud. You authorized Netflix to charge an account, not a particular physical card. If you want to revoke that authorization, you need to revoke the authorization, not get mad at them when they work with Visa to streamline the process of cha…

> We absolutely do need to improve transparency and require companies like this to make canceling easy, but hyperbole but like yours isn't helping us get there

What ever this service of providing a token that you seem to feel superior for knowing the details is just a way for these SaaS type systems to continue to drain money from people. Netflix or any streaming platform is not a life or death service that users need. if they fail (intentionally or not) to keep the service updated with payment information, suspending the service is not going to cause anything but a bit of inconvenience. if you're so spoiled that you get upset at the suspension, then that's on you (royal you not lolinder). instead, we've built this system that makes it easier for the SaaS providers to continue using their dark patterns to siphon money which ensures the card companies their monthly fees as well. so while you may disagree with me calling it fraud, it does feel a lot like collusion between these parties rather than being a service for the consumer.

So since we cannot win against the dark patterns, they've now removed the sure fire way people had to protect themselves. But hey, it sure makes it convenient for them

Re: Disney, Netflix, and more are fighting FTC's 'click to cancel' proposal

#192

Post by tracker1 » Thu, Jul 13, 2023, 4:59 PM UTC

atum47 wrote: post #69

Netflix is such a crook. I had cancelled my subscription a while ago. They gave me the rest of the month to watch (since i already paid that month). Well, I had cancelled because I don't watch anymore. Guess what? Since it was a family plan, my father end up watching on his house, in another city. So Netflix renew the subscription. Fun right? I get a message everytime my card gets charged, that's why I noticed I was…

That's messed up. I remember a bit more than a decade ago, when I was receiving DVDs as well as the streaming had started a couple years earlier. I had cancelled as I was just too busy to use the service. No muss, no fuss, just two clicks and done. They didn't inundate me with email messages either, like some other services (about one a quarter). I was happy to re-join six months later because of that smooth experience.

Contrast to when I was a happy user of XM radio... I had sold one of my cars, and just wanted to remove one of 4 radios on the account. I get placed in a 40 minute hold queue, and when the rep couldn't talk me out of it, I was suddenly dropped from the call... mysterious eh. Well, the third time I was so pissed off I cancelled everything. I've had rather visceral feelings towards them ever since. If you ever deal with them, my own suggestion would be to use a one-time only card to setup the account. Of course, you're better off if you have good cell coverage just using spotify, youtube music or similar.

Re: Disney, Netflix, and more are fighting FTC's 'click to cancel' proposal

#193

Post by remyp » Thu, Jul 13, 2023, 5:01 PM UTC

I have a small SaaS business and do the vast majority of development myself. I made it just as easy to cancel as it is to sign up, just a couple clicks. Not that anybody does: churn is way below every benchmark and those who cancel for a time frequently come back.

Being customer-friendly pays dividends, folks. Not sure why big companies don't get that. Maybe it's because the only stakeholders I have to answer to are myself, my cofounder, and our customers.

Re: Disney, Netflix, and more are fighting FTC's 'click to cancel' proposal

#194

Post by ropeladder » Thu, Jul 13, 2023, 5:02 PM UTC

mint2 wrote: post #131

lolinder wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you know the details of what happened here? Unless you know otherwise, it sounds like your father probably ended up clicking the "renew subscription now" button when prompted, not that simply logging in triggered the charge. I'm ready to believe that the renewal prompt was heavily geared towards making it easy to renew, and Netflix should be required to make it equally easy to cancel, but unless you know he didn't…

I cancelled Amazon prime a couple years ago and ran into the same issue. It was absurd frankly. I went through the cancellation process got a cancellation confirmation email and then still got billed at the end of the month. I called and they did reverse the charges and told me it had happened because a behind the scenes box was checked for automatic payments - I scoured the page to see if that was a user facing opti…

Well, not for the customer...

Re: Disney, Netflix, and more are fighting FTC's 'click to cancel' proposal

#195

Post by tracker1 » Thu, Jul 13, 2023, 5:07 PM UTC

terinjokes wrote: post #77

akvadrako wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That VAT only covers the extra fees; it's 21%.

I only noticed that after writing the comment. Still feels wrong to advertise one price, then sneak in "total fees" (whatever those are) in between the checkout flow and the payment processor page.

see: TicketMaster

Re: Disney, Netflix, and more are fighting FTC's 'click to cancel' proposal

#196

Post by cogman10 » Thu, Jul 13, 2023, 5:08 PM UTC

Luctct wrote: post #76

The issue is so simple. The companies claim that it would impose heavy costs on them. Well. So it either costs the companies or it costs the consumer. But the consumer is exercising their free choice while the companies are ignoring said choice and forcing them to pay for something they don't want. That's textbook extortion. Easy solution: impose crippling fines or maybe a little prison sentence here and there for ex…

> The companies claim that it would impose heavy costs on them.

Which is funny because they spend ungodly amounts of money staffing and fielding the phone calls for cancelation.

The actual cost is literally hooking their almost certainly existing "cancel subscription" api up to a UX for the user. They've already done 99% of the work since these companies all support cancelation.

Re: Disney, Netflix, and more are fighting FTC's 'click to cancel' proposal

#197

Post by enono » Thu, Jul 13, 2023, 5:13 PM UTC

atum47 wrote: post #96

lolinder wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Did customer support confirm that that is the feature they were talking about—watching something after renewal triggers the charge? Or is it possible you were talking past each other? The only documentation on Netflix for this doesn't mention this 'feature' [0], and I can't find any discussion of similar cases (which I would expect for something like this). Also, this kind of behavior would unambiguously violate seve…

I mean, they have a lot of complaints about the same issue: https://www.reclameaqui.com.br/netflix/conta-reativada-sem-a... https://www.reclameaqui.com.br/netflix/cancelar-assinatura_R... https://www.reclameaqui.com.br/netflix/cancelei-a-minha-assi... https://www.reclameaqui.com.br/netflix/cobranca-no-cartao-me... I mean, sorry about the topics being in PT-BR, but they seem to be doing that with a lot of customers...

[flagged]

Re: Disney, Netflix, and more are fighting FTC's 'click to cancel' proposal

#198

Post by dangus » Thu, Jul 13, 2023, 5:13 PM UTC

jrockway wrote: post #122

dangus wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> By simply watching after the final date they gave us… Yeah if I stay in my apartment after my lease expires my landlord is gonna charge me rent. Obviously, Netflix shouldn’t have let you in, but… > I have talked to my father, he did not clicked anything. I learned long ago not to trust technological recollections coming from my parents. Ironically, Netflix was actually right about password sharing: someone else wit…

If you cancel your lease and then stay in your apartment until the lease expiration date, they aren't going to renew your lease. You paid for the entire month, you're allowed to stay for the entire month.

“After the final date” is a key phrase in the comment I replied to. The word “after” is there.

If you stay a day past your lease your landlord can charge you the next month’s rent.

If you take a wrong turn and accidentally enter a toll highway you’ll get charged a toll, automatically in many places.

If you forget to turn your faucet off you’ll pay for water and sewer usage even if you said you didn’t need the water.

I’m not defending Netflix for willingly making the process this way, but at the same time individuals also have the responsibility to follow some basic instructions and stop using things that they want to cancel.

Re: Disney, Netflix, and more are fighting FTC's 'click to cancel' proposal

#199

Post by renewiltord » Thu, Jul 13, 2023, 5:19 PM UTC

rogual wrote: post #190

Strange to see Netflix on the list, because here in the UK it's extremely easy to cancel. You just click once and it's done, and you still get to watch for the rest of the month. I'm sure it can't be because of UK law, because we have plenty of other companies here who make cancellations awkward.

Same, here in California I just tried it. Account > (big button at top) Cancel Membership > Finish Cancellation. That's about as perfect as I'd want it. I don't want a cancel button on my main screen and I do want a confirm field when I make destructive actions.

Finish Cancellation button is highlighted in Blue and obvious default. Below that is a "downgrade plan" option. There is also a note above Finish Cancellation that says "If you resubscribe within 10 months, your profile and watched shows will remain" or something like that.

Re: Disney, Netflix, and more are fighting FTC's 'click to cancel' proposal

#200

Post by nielsbot » Thu, Jul 13, 2023, 5:24 PM UTC

kevinmchugh wrote: post #55

Illinois says that any subscription must be cancelable in the same place it's created, so if I sign up for Hulu using my smart tv,I can cancel there as well. It's really good. People often complain about the proliferation of streaming services, but thanks to the law mentioned above, I'm able to subscribe and then immediately cancel. If I decide I want more time I can resubscribe later. I get to watch what I want with…

This is one reason I prefer subscribing via Apple's store where possible--it's always a hassle-free cancellation and all my subscriptions are in one screen.