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When an app asks for permissions, it should have a “feed fake data” option

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Re: When an app asks for permissions, it should have a “feed fake data” option

#331

Post by grishka »

scarface_74 wrote: post #275
grishka wrote: post #226

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As an app developer, I do have a very real problem. I don't want Apple to impose their agenda on me and act like they own the relationship between me and my users. In particular, Apple should have no opinion on what kind of UGC my app contains if it's rated 18+. Apple should also stop protecting their own products by rejecting apps that cut into their market. But of course, Apple would do none of these things volunta…

So which app does Apple reject that cuts into “their market”? Office apps (iWork)? There is Office 365, GSuite Storage providers (iCloud)? All third party storage providers show up next to iCloud when you use the file dialog box - DropBox, Box, Google Drive, One Drive Streaming apps (AppleTV)? There are dozens and when you search for a TV show or movie, the AppleTV app will tell you which subscribe services have it?…

> So which app does Apple reject that cuts into “their market”?

Netflix's "you can't sign up through the app" is a prime example of this that immediately comes to mind but there are many more.

An argument can be made that hey.com is, in a way, competitor to the paid iCloud subscription. Yet Apple acts as if they own that relationship and that the app store was valuable in bringing the users to the app: https://www.hey.com/apple/iap/

Do you really think it's fair that all competing services have to be 30% more expensive than Apple's own ones if they play by Apple's rules?

There used to be lots of iOS apps that allowed streaming pirated music. Everyone, including Apple, was seemingly fine with that and never asked where the music came from. But then, suddenly, when Apple Music was preparing to launch, all those apps started magically getting rejected for breaking the rule on "illegal file sharing".

> When I pay for an app,

Stop right here. No one was talking about paid apps. My initial point was about free apps. But if you so insist, in a FREE market, app developers would offer two options: pay through Apple with their 30% tax, or pay directly without it. I'll let you figure out which option most people would choose.

Re: When an app asks for permissions, it should have a “feed fake data” option

#332

Post by Cyberdog »

devilbunny wrote: post #325
floomk wrote: post #265

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're confusing first party apps with third party apps. Also you're forgetting that this is a forum which is heavily biased to developers. I use Android because my phone isn't a fashion piece. Some of my users sadly use iOS. They want the software on the devices they purchased and own, but Apple is preventing us from delivering this to them unless we do exactly as Apple commands. So in the end everyone loses, except…

Let me push back against that a bit. My phone is not a fashion piece. AFAICT the blue bubbles will show up with an old 4S just as well as with a 14 Pro Max. I have an iPhone - which I got after many years with Android - because iMessage is an essential app for me. I live in the US, so my business partners do not have [choice of alternative messaging app] installed and they are not going to install it just for me. I'm…

> Or how Apple is being a gigantic bunch of assholes by not using something other than vanilla SMS if you're not an iMessage user.

What alternative would you suggest? And is that alternative as universal as SMS?

Re: When an app asks for permissions, it should have a “feed fake data” option

#333

Post by RajT88 »

mormegil wrote: post #45
ryandrake wrote: post #27

I’m all for the “fake data” idea, but also: Apps should be required to gracefully handle the cases where users deny permission to access real data. I know last time I developed for iOS, it was Apple’s policy that apps cannot punish users or exit() the app in retaliation for them denying a permission. Apps must gracefully handle it and continue running. Also, and this was even longer ago, apps could not require users…

> apps could not require users to have “an account” in order to run There is some big qualification missing or I don't understand what does that even mean. How could a banking app run without an account? An online game? The Twitter app nowadays? Dropbox/Nextcloud/...? Etc. Yeah, I agree that for a lot of apps, requiring a account is just a marketing gimmick, but I don't think such a general rule could work.

Many online games do not require an account. Ones that do not store things like level progression or inventory between play sessions.

You need an account for WoW, but not Unreal Tournament, to use 90's examples.

Re: When an app asks for permissions, it should have a “feed fake data” option

#334

Post by grishka »

plorkyeran wrote: post #318
grishka wrote: post #223

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Did sanctions really intend to affect regular people who have exactly zero say in the matter though?

That is what sanctions do, so either no politician has ever thought about the implication of sanctions or it's an intended effect.

There's two possible explanations.

1. They don't think about these kinds of second-order effects. They see that this company is somehow involved with the government and that's it. Their electorate won't care about these kinds of details because they're "doing something" to supposedly stop the war sooner.

2. They think that Russians would somehow revolt against the government. This doesn't work — the Russian government lacks any meaningful feedback mechanisms. By protesting, you'd expose yourself to immense personal risks for no discernible effect. Unless you're a heavily armed private army heading straight for Moscow.

Re: When an app asks for permissions, it should have a “feed fake data” option

#337

Post by bentley »

GrapheneOS implemented this feature for the filesystem—called “Storage Scopes”—and a similar feature for contacts is in alpha. Apparently camera, microphone, and location are in progress.

https://grapheneos.social/@GrapheneOS/110382189104598979

Re: When an app asks for permissions, it should have a “feed fake data” option

#338

Post by riwsky »

yesimahuman wrote: post #324
floomk wrote: post #265

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're confusing first party apps with third party apps. Also you're forgetting that this is a forum which is heavily biased to developers. I use Android because my phone isn't a fashion piece. Some of my users sadly use iOS. They want the software on the devices they purchased and own, but Apple is preventing us from delivering this to them unless we do exactly as Apple commands. So in the end everyone loses, except…

You’re being downvoted (clearly by multiple people) for having a valid opposing opinion in a subjective debate. Hate to see that kind of behavior on HN. Upvoted you to balance it out.

[flagged]

Re: When an app asks for permissions, it should have a “feed fake data” option

#339

Post by [deleted] »

progbits wrote: post #215
AmericanChopper wrote: post #208

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For starters, it does nothing at all to prevent taking screen shots. Which is what this thread is about. As for high quality video capture, it is trivially easy to do. How do you think high quality copies of Netflix-only content ends up on the pirate bay they same day it comes out?

Yes it does. HD Netflix in Chrome, Edge or Safari will result in black rectangle when you screenshot it.

[deleted]

Re: When an app asks for permissions, it should have a “feed fake data” option

#340

Post by nine_k »

zzo38computer wrote: post #309

I think that "feed fake data" is the wrong way to do it. The good way should be something like "feed data from alternate source", where the alternate source can be any other program. This other source could be anything that the user wants to put in by that other programs, such as: empty data, random data, fake but consistent data, data from an alternate file (e.g. a separate contacts list, or a picture from a file in…

I think this is the best approach, and the only really workable approach. Very often it's too hard for an app developer to play nicely with an unavailable permission, and it makes testing vastly larger and harder for a relatively marginal set of users, so smaller commercial apps mostly won't care to play nicely.

Granting the permission bu feeding an alternative data source is easiest for both parties, the developers and the users.

It, of course, will make some scams easier, too. Prepare for banks to use more complex device-enlisting procedures, for instance.

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