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When an app asks for permissions, it should have a “feed fake data” option

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Re: When an app asks for permissions, it should have a “feed fake data” option

#311

I thought of this years ago and even tried implementing this but my knowledge that time was very limited. So eventually I gave up. I think before android implemented their permission system, os like Xiaomi’d implemented their permissions by feeding fake data to the app in case user reject a permission.

I think that feeding fake data by default in case use reject a permission is not appropriate. There should be an option to do that (or, like I suggested, a way for the user to write programs to program it to feed whatever data they want), although I think that by default if a permission is rejected it should just provide empty data (e.g. an empty contacts list) or an appropriate error code (e.g. network error or disk error or cannot acquire satellite, just as though that error had actually occurred), rather than making up fake data.

Re: When an app asks for permissions, it should have a “feed fake data” option

#312
post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> it was Apple’s policy that apps cannot punish users or exit() the app in retaliation for them denying a permission. Meanwhile, WhatsApp still "punishes" users for denying contacts access by hiding everyone's names (only the phone numbers are shown), including for contacts that have their own names set in their own profiles. Facebook^W Meta is scum.

> Meanwhile, WhatsApp still "punishes" users for denying contacts access by hiding everyone's names Huh, had no idea that's why I only see numbers. If I do allow contacts, does it show the name from contacts, rather than whatever display name they chose? If so then I guess that's kind of a "technically we need contacts to display names, which are resolved locally" deal. But Apple could push back "you're big enough to…

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Re: When an app asks for permissions, it should have a “feed fake data” option

#313
post #9

I really wish browsers would take this approach with notifications. If a website asks if I have notifications enabled, tell them yes, and send them all into the oblivion. Edit: to clarify, I already disable all notifications in Firefox. I was referring to websites that check via JavaScript whether you have notifications turned on and trigger a pop up to ask you to enable them.

Well, the user should be allowed to easily program it to send the notifications (or any other stuff that the web page may do) to a file (e.g. /dev/null) or to a pipe (e.g. a program that filters notifications).

Re: When an app asks for permissions, it should have a “feed fake data” option

#314
post #287

This will only start a cat and mouse game between app developers and users feeding junk data. There will be statistical tells or artifacts in fake data that will be identified which will prompt vendors to improve the entropy or patterns it creates. The only solution (for a non development/testing uses) is for applications to accept no as an answer.

> The only solution (for a non development/testing uses) is for applications to accept no as an answer.

Agreed; feeding fake data is not a substitute for writing good applications. However, that does not mean that feeding fake data is worthless. There are many uses (including, but not limited to, programmers/companies that have failed to write good applications; like you say, testing is also a use of such a thing).

Re: When an app asks for permissions, it should have a “feed fake data” option

#315

I’m all for the “fake data” idea, but also: Apps should be required to gracefully handle the cases where users deny permission to access real data. I know last time I developed for iOS, it was Apple’s policy that apps cannot punish users or exit() the app in retaliation for them denying a permission. Apps must gracefully handle it and continue running. Also, and this was even longer ago, apps could not require users…

The point of civil disobedience is often to ensure the non-graceful handling being protested results in a very non-graceful effect. Companies soften their stance real quick when the hard positions they hold cost them a lot more. Apps punish users - there must absolutely be a feedback effect of users punishing apps.

Re: When an app asks for permissions, it should have a “feed fake data” option

#316
post #179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So you and me have both worlds to choose from (not gonna reiterate pros/cons hundredth time). You are living in yours, but I have to lose mine. By me I mean all those people who chose Apple for what it is and ignore Android for what it is, with regards to what we’re talking about. You have no real problem, only intrusive ideology. Please relax and leave us alone. We’ll speak for ourselves when we feel wronged.

As an app developer, I do have a very real problem. I don't want Apple to impose their agenda on me and act like they own the relationship between me and my users. In particular, Apple should have no opinion on what kind of UGC my app contains if it's rated 18+. Apple should also stop protecting their own products by rejecting apps that cut into their market. But of course, Apple would do none of these things volunta…

[deleted]

Re: When an app asks for permissions, it should have a “feed fake data” option

#317

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple doesn't get to dictate what constitutes a good user experience. Especially for me - that is my prerogative and mine alone. So yes, I will be extremely happy with it. This opens doors to all kinds of software that can compete with one another, and if I don't like it, I can simply uninstall it myself.

Just one more bit of anecdotal evidence to support your view. Our app was rejected after review until we updated an external support doc to which the app linked. The doc contained system requirements for both iOS and Android devices, and we were specifically rejected for even having mentioned the competing operating system.

  > The doc contained system requirements for both iOS and Android devices, and we were specifically rejected for even having mentioned the competing operating system.
same, for us we just open all links in safari now, so if mentions of android show up its not "in the app"... an arguably worsened user experience for no good reason except to keep apple happy

Re: When an app asks for permissions, it should have a “feed fake data” option

#318

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This sounds like a good thing; the sanctions are working as intended.

Did sanctions really intend to affect regular people who have exactly zero say in the matter though?

That is what sanctions do, so either no politician has ever thought about the implication of sanctions or it's an intended effect.

Re: When an app asks for permissions, it should have a “feed fake data” option

#319

This will just make app developers angry at your platform. If this is just some hack users are doing apps will increasingly use attestation to make sure you are not feeding them fake data. Apps want to be able to give users a good user experience and if they are given fake data users will get angry that the developer's app is broken and leave 1 star reviews. Denying permissions and letting apps know something is deni…

Apps don't want to give users a good experience. Apps want to milk users for all the data they posses. Denying permissions remains an option, but some digital trash will refuse to work unless you give them your address book and location history. Those apps deserve to be fed fake data. Clicking the "feed fake data" button is an explicit alternative to denying permissions, it's not a replacement.

> Clicking the "feed fake data" button is an explicit alternative to denying permissions, it's not a replacement.

Yes, it should be a separate option. However, instead of "feed fake data", perhaps the options should be "Allow", "Deny", and "Custom"; if you select "Custom" (which you can do also when installed or in the settings menu, even when the app is not running) then the user can program their own handler of the data requests, and can also choose from a list of such programs which have already been programmed before.

Re: When an app asks for permissions, it should have a “feed fake data” option

#320

I am surprised no top comment mentions this — on iOS, you cannot distinguish if you were granted a permission or not. As an example, if an app asks you for access to your photos, it will always get an array. The trick is that when you deny this permission, the array will be empty, so you cannot know if the user simply has an empty library or if he denied you access. I like it, simple and elegant. Naturally, in the ca…

> on iOS, you cannot distinguish if you were granted a permission or not. This isn’t correct. For instance, accessing location services provides CLAuthorizationStatus: https://developer.apple.com/documentation/corelocation/claut... …and push notifications have UNAuthorizationStatus: https://developer.apple.com/documentation/usernotifications/... …and health data has HKAuthorizationStatus: https://developer.apple.com/…

> but you cannot distinguish between limited access and full access

I believe you can check whether you received limited photos access: https://developer.apple.com/documentation/photokit/phauthori...

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