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Leo Tolstoy on why people drink (2014)

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Re: Leo Tolstoy on why people drink (2014)

#251

Post by abracadaniel »

Al-Khwarizmi wrote: post #178
thenoblesunfish wrote: post #114

Let's consider this quote "All human life, we may say, consists solely of these two activities: (1) bringing one’s activities into harmony with conscience, or (2) hiding from oneself the indications of conscience in order to be able to continue to live as before." Note that he has defined all of life as two points about "one" and "oneself". This is why I and I assume many others roll their eyes. Because Tolstoy, and…

That's one important reason, but there's another one that is even more neglected: it just... tastes good (for those of us who like it, of course). For example, as a 90 kg man, for me drinking a single 33cl bottle of beer has pretty much the same effect as drinking water, i.e., I don't feel anything at all (note that I don't drive, in that context it would probably still be relevant). So when I have a single beer with…

Relevant xkcd: https://m.xkcd.com/1534/

Re: Leo Tolstoy on why people drink (2014)

#252

Post by engineeringwoke »

joenot443 wrote: post #245
engineeringwoke wrote: post #241

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From what I have read, they all wrote when they were sober, not when they were drunk. https://www.forbes.com/sites/henrydevries/2018/12/11/ernest-...

In "Hunter: The Strange and Savage Life of Hunter S. Thompson", it's made very clear that Hunter did _not_ write while he was sober. An excerpt of his daily schedule - 9:00(pm) starts snorting cocaine seriously 10:00 drops acid 11:00 Chartreuse, cocaine, grass 11:30 cocaine, etc, etc. 12:00 midnight, Hunter S. Thompson is ready to write 12:05-6:00 a.m. Chartreuse, cocaine, grass, Chivas, coffee, Heineken, clove cigar…

The OP was talking about "William Faulkner, Eugene O'Neill, Ernest Hemingway and John Steinbeck"... "what about Hunter S. Thompson?" isn't really a good argument. He's not considered a great writer in the grand scheme of things, I think he's better known for being a drug addict.

Re: Leo Tolstoy on why people drink (2014)

#253

Post by pfannkuchen »

icoder wrote: post #189
Al-Khwarizmi wrote: post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's one important reason, but there's another one that is even more neglected: it just... tastes good (for those of us who like it, of course). For example, as a 90 kg man, for me drinking a single 33cl bottle of beer has pretty much the same effect as drinking water, i.e., I don't feel anything at all (note that I don't drive, in that context it would probably still be relevant). So when I have a single beer with…

Absolutely agree with the taste aspect. I (male) went 0% when my gf went off of birth control and kept it that way throughout pregnancy until now (baby's 9 months) and I certainly miss some of the tastes (beers, wines, liqueur). My luck is that I enjoy drinking Heineken 0.0 and most of the 0.3%/0.5% IPA's they sell now (at least here, Netherlands). As for 0% alternatives for wines and liqueur, they haven't come close…

Was this for moral support or can it damage sperm somehow? Asking for a friend.

Re: Leo Tolstoy on why people drink (2014)

#254

Post by joenot443 »

engineeringwoke wrote: post #252
joenot443 wrote: post #245

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In "Hunter: The Strange and Savage Life of Hunter S. Thompson", it's made very clear that Hunter did _not_ write while he was sober. An excerpt of his daily schedule - 9:00(pm) starts snorting cocaine seriously 10:00 drops acid 11:00 Chartreuse, cocaine, grass 11:30 cocaine, etc, etc. 12:00 midnight, Hunter S. Thompson is ready to write 12:05-6:00 a.m. Chartreuse, cocaine, grass, Chivas, coffee, Heineken, clove cigar…

The OP was talking about "William Faulkner, Eugene O'Neill, Ernest Hemingway and John Steinbeck"... "what about Hunter S. Thompson?" isn't really a good argument. He's not considered a great writer in the grand scheme of things, I think he's better known for being a drug addict.

The idea, since it appears to have been lost on you, is that there's a long history of great writers (like Thompson) using drugs while they created. The Thompson quote is one of many, I think that's the part you may be misunderstanding. Truthfully, I'm surprised that a single Forbes article which quotes a "Michelle Stansbury, PR expert and founder of Little Penguin PR" is enough to have convinced you otherwise.

Re: Leo Tolstoy on why people drink (2014)

#255

Post by kjs3 »

Thlom wrote: post #149
cbau wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This rings true. I went to a reasonably well known engineering school, so...some selection for ADHD folks. Can you expand on this. Do you think think engineering schools select for ADHD? Just curious, haven't heard this before.

I think he means the other way around. Engineering fits for many neuro-divergent people. Especially ADHD and some types of autism.

Yes, this. Sorry I was being a bit flippant and that wasn't clear.

Re: Leo Tolstoy on why people drink (2014)

#256

Post by glonq »

tester756 wrote: post #31
glonq wrote: post #14

One of the reasons why I don't drink is that I like being me . Specifically... - I like who I am when I'm sober, and don't expect that I would like 'drunk me'. - I like being in full control over what I experience and how I experience it. - I also enjoy remembering (and not regretting) those experiences.

You're sure you don't have something to hide and you're worried that alcohol would make you show it? :P

don't we all?

Re: Leo Tolstoy on why people drink (2014)

#257

Post by gedy »

voidmain0001 wrote: post #234
thenoblesunfish wrote: post #114

Let's consider this quote "All human life, we may say, consists solely of these two activities: (1) bringing one’s activities into harmony with conscience, or (2) hiding from oneself the indications of conscience in order to be able to continue to live as before." Note that he has defined all of life as two points about "one" and "oneself". This is why I and I assume many others roll their eyes. Because Tolstoy, and…

To say that alcohol distills down to being able to socialize doesn’t fit. Socializing is not hard. Are you at a party? Approach people you don’t know the way you want to be approached. Wear a sincere smile, give some distance, give your name, ask them who they know at the party, respond with who you know. Most likely you will know the same people so chat about that. Say where you live then ask them where they live. L…

I think it's better to say a social lubricant for getting sex. Walking up and chatting is not the same as loosening people up for potential hook ups (unless you're really gorgeous to begin with)

Re: Leo Tolstoy on why people drink (2014)

#258

Post by caeril »

nunyabid5655 wrote: post #236
thenoblesunfish wrote: post #114

Let's consider this quote "All human life, we may say, consists solely of these two activities: (1) bringing one’s activities into harmony with conscience, or (2) hiding from oneself the indications of conscience in order to be able to continue to live as before." Note that he has defined all of life as two points about "one" and "oneself". This is why I and I assume many others roll their eyes. Because Tolstoy, and…

Great points and whereas many may begin drinking to aid in some way with social interactions there are many that drink for what I think is closer to the second part/activity of the quote, to hide, forget, ignore, avoid, etc., and often increase their consumption while isolating themselves. For the alcoholic, it's more about what Tolstoy was saying than about social lubrication

> For the alcoholic

Well, no. Alcoholism can start regardless of the reason you start drinking. There are plenty of "social lubricant" drinkers who became alcoholics because of the pernicious GABA regulation cycle.

You might start drinking to have a better social life, but eventually you drink to cure the hangover, to cure the shakes, to cure the anxiety that alcohol withdrawal gives you. Then it's just a cyclical pattern of poisoning yourself to cure the effects of the last poisoning.

When your addiction becomes physical, it doesn't matter why you started drinking in the first place. Now the only reason you drink is to function.

Re: Leo Tolstoy on why people drink (2014)

#259

Post by dgreensp »

ordu wrote: post #154
bcatanzaro wrote: post #54

I find the description of alcohol as something that "stupefies" rather reductive. People are often louder, more expressive and more interesting when they've had a drink. The opposite of catatonic. Now it's true that overdosing on alcohol is poisonous but most people don't drink to the point of stupification regularly. I am interested in why Tolstoy feels the need to be so reductive. Sounds to me like he might also be…

> Sounds to me like he might also be "hiding from himself what he doesn't wish to see". He tells exactly this. You and him are looking from different sets of axioms, so you come to a different language, but it is just outside appearance. Tolstoy uses axioms like Freud's: human is an animal inside and human needs to work hard to subside his/her animal nature and to become a Human. So human is inherently bad, but it ma…

Neither set of axioms requires one to be extremely reductive about something like alcohol. Does Tolstoy admit to being reductive (“he tells exactly this”)?

I think in this case it isn’t the axioms but the “style” of philosophical discourse that requires the reader to take the message with a big grain of salt. Like when a YouTuber says, “In the next ten minutes, I’m going to lay out the exact formula for how to write a perfect screenplay,” it’s not literally true. Tolstoy’s musings are a little deeper than your average YouTuber, on par with a good one, similarly overblown and oversimplified, and more moralizing.

Re: Leo Tolstoy on why people drink (2014)

#260

Post by engineeringwoke »

joenot443 wrote: post #254
engineeringwoke wrote: post #252

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The OP was talking about "William Faulkner, Eugene O'Neill, Ernest Hemingway and John Steinbeck"... "what about Hunter S. Thompson?" isn't really a good argument. He's not considered a great writer in the grand scheme of things, I think he's better known for being a drug addict.

The idea, since it appears to have been lost on you, is that there's a long history of great writers (like Thompson) using drugs while they created. The Thompson quote is one of many, I think that's the part you may be misunderstanding. Truthfully, I'm surprised that a single Forbes article which quotes a "Michelle Stansbury, PR expert and founder of Little Penguin PR" is enough to have convinced you otherwise.

Find an article that says that great works of the English language were produced while the authors were drunk then?
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