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Google is about to make life more difficult for custom ROM fans

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Re: Google is about to make life more difficult for custom ROM fans

#191

Post by hedora »

luca020400 wrote: post #93
hedora wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the big question is whether they “improve” the APIs these apps require at the same time. That would break the alternative implementations.

Android APIs are stable and an app will keep working until Google decides to bump the min SDK version in Android itself. The APIs a Google app uses are the same as any other app. Unless the app is privileged ( = can use system APIs ) there's no difference in capabilities.

Yes. That is the problem I am referring to. They can bump the api version, removing the non-privileged APIs the AOSP stuff used, and move the implementation of the new privileged API into a proprietary blob.

This is how location services work. Location has an obvious local-only fallback, but it is broken in practice. I imagine they can break phone calls/sms/rcs equally badly using the same technique.

Re: Google is about to make life more difficult for custom ROM fans

#192

Post by NoGravitas »

neurostimulant wrote: post #127
Dwedit wrote: post #40

The much bigger thing making life difficult for Custom ROM fans is the "device fingerprint" nonsense making your device condemned to fail SafetyNet. Hope you never want to run a banking app.

Interestingly, Netflix was the one that give me problem (refused to run with unlocked bootloader). I can run all banking apps I need (5 of them) on my phone with unlocked bootloader just fine.

Hmm. My phone runs LineageOS for microG, and both Netflix and my banking apps work fine. The bootloader remains unlocked. microG settings say that Google SafetyNet is on.

Re: Google is about to make life more difficult for custom ROM fans

#193

Post by JohnFen »

4ggr0 wrote: post #189
JohnFen wrote: post #187

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As someone who loathes auto-updating applications of any sort, this is more of a win than a loss.

But it's not just auto-update. I can disable auto-update in the Google Play Store, but at least I easily see if updates are available and can still selectively update apps with the press of one button. For me, the better solution would be F-Droid. Easy update process but the apps are mostly open-source etc.

Ah, good point. That convenience is not terribly important to me, so I didn't consider it.

Re: Google is about to make life more difficult for custom ROM fans

#194

Post by colordrops »

o1y32 wrote: post #141
colordrops wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It doesn't take a 100 million people to build a new phone ecosystem. Only a few thousand, if even that. If there is no alternative, it will get built and be usable. I avoid other open phone projects because I don't have the time and AOSP works fine, but if Google breaks it beyond usability, you better believe I'll be jumping onto one of the fully open projects even if it has major limitations.

I don't know where you can find that "only a few thousand" people or the funding. I don't know if one can even count the number of failed attempts at a mobile operating system.

Do you not participate in any open source communities? Many have thousands of participants, even obscure Linux window managers.

Re: Google is about to make life more difficult for custom ROM fans

#195

Post by NoGravitas »

logicprog wrote: post #131
public_defender wrote: post #130

I agree with the many siblings that say this news is pretty irrelevant to people who use custom ROMs, but I don't think it's realistic to say that FOSS alternatives exist, at least for SMS. There are multiple references in this thread to Simple SMS, but that app is not at all ready for prime time. If your carrier/ROM didn't bundle an SMS app you can live with, I think you are out of luck. I'm glad to be proved wrong…

QKSMS is great!

QKSMS has a better interface than Simple SMS Messenger, but it's unmaintained, and for me, it had the same or worse problems with MMS than Simple SMS has.

Re: Google is about to make life more difficult for custom ROM fans

#196

Post by deng »

hollow-moe wrote: post #186
deng wrote: post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are right, this is another issue. With an unlocked bootloader, you'll not be able to fully pass SafetyNet, for instance. I've also seen some forum posts that this should be possible for Motorola Moto G phones, but there were some warnings that if you do that, you might not be able to unlock your phone ever again, so I've never tried...

You can bypass safetynet even with an unlocked bootloader. I'm using Lineage 20 with microg and with a bit of work with magisk modules you can get it to work. I just feel like this is again another "security feature" to make it harder for people who don't want google in their phones.

To my knowledge, there are different levels of passing SafetyNet. I also use Magisk to hide root and use the safetynet-fix-module, but it still detects the unlocked bootloader. However, for instance my banking apps run fine as long as they don't detect root, but I hear stuff like Netflix will not work (which I don't care for).

According to John Wu, author of Magisk, it is not possible anymore to hide the bootloader/safeboot status via Magisk (https://nitter.lacontrevoie.fr/topjohnwu/status/123783055552...). I don't think that situation has changed.

Re: Google is about to make life more difficult for custom ROM fans

#197

Post by tetris11 »

Grimburger wrote: post #70
deng wrote: post #33

Has the author of this article ever used a custom ROM? There are so many free alternatives for these apps out there. If I remember correctly, LineageOS ships with their own version of Dialer/Messages anyway. I usually replace them with the versions of SimpleMobileTools, which work just fine. The main difficulty for custom ROMs are not these standard apps. The real issues are bootloaders which cannot be unlocked, undo…

> Just look how Google effectively broke the AuroraStore App recently. For anyone who has been hit by this, you can workaround the api issue by long pressing on a playstore http link and clicking open in app (aurora icon). So you can't search using the app anymore, but if you have the link to what you want you can still install without playstore or a google account. It's frustrating but isn't the end.

For anyone who is unable to get the "Open in App" to open in Aurora (and not F-droid), check that you've actually clicked on the App webpage and that you're not just in the search page (play.google.com/search?app=blah, for example is bad)

Re: Google is about to make life more difficult for custom ROM fans

#198

Post by joecool1029 »

deng wrote: post #33

Has the author of this article ever used a custom ROM? There are so many free alternatives for these apps out there. If I remember correctly, LineageOS ships with their own version of Dialer/Messages anyway. I usually replace them with the versions of SimpleMobileTools, which work just fine. The main difficulty for custom ROMs are not these standard apps. The real issues are bootloaders which cannot be unlocked, undo…

>LineageOS ships with their own version of Dialer/Messages anyway.

They use slightly modified AOSP versions. This isn't the first time a major AOSP app was dropped, the biggest was the built-in email client like 4 major Android releases ago. Also the calendar app was replaced by Etar a few releases ago (can't remember if AOSP's calendar was deprecated or just a piece of shit).

Re: Google is about to make life more difficult for custom ROM fans

#199

Post by joecool1029 »

deng wrote: post #196
hollow-moe wrote: post #186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can bypass safetynet even with an unlocked bootloader. I'm using Lineage 20 with microg and with a bit of work with magisk modules you can get it to work. I just feel like this is again another "security feature" to make it harder for people who don't want google in their phones.

To my knowledge, there are different levels of passing SafetyNet. I also use Magisk to hide root and use the safetynet-fix-module, but it still detects the unlocked bootloader. However, for instance my banking apps run fine as long as they don't detect root, but I hear stuff like Netflix will not work (which I don't care for). According to John Wu, author of Magisk, it is not possible anymore to hide the bootloader/s…

> but I hear stuff like Netflix will not work (which I don't care for)

This is Widevine DRM, most devices with the Magisk workarounds will get at least L3, which gives you standard definition netflix. Need L1 for HD and only a few phones unlock bootloader reliably and keep it (my Oneplus 8T does, 9 pro does not)

Re: Google is about to make life more difficult for custom ROM fans

#200

Post by sourcecodeplz »

nologic01 wrote: post #159

Ok, naive question but I would dearly love to have an informed answer as another phone of mine is dying, it is still TINA and I can't for the life of me project how this will play out: The first iphone was released in 2007. That's like 15 years ago. People were probably toying with "smart" phones already few years before that. Its not that the world doesn't know how to manufacture smartphones and/or write software fo…

Because just like with the iPhone mini, a small but vocal minority is not worth serving if development costs are too high.

Most people don't care about hacking their phone. They just want one that works.

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