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Google is about to make life more difficult for custom ROM fans

androidauthority.com

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Re: Google is about to make life more difficult for custom ROM fans

#71

Post by palata »

jraph wrote: post #61
charcircuit wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Plenty of android phones have alternatives. It's what custom roms in the title of this article is referring to.

But these custom ROMs are hard to maintain especially as soon as when the phone manufacturer drops support. There's no way to get the latest AOSP on these devices forever. Hard work is required to port any new version and that's not always possible because AOSP comes to rely on newer kernel versions but you are stuck with the heavily customized one (+ the blobs) the manufacturer provided.

Ever tried LineageOS, /e/OS, GrapheneOS or CalyxOS?

Of course you need to choose a supported phone, but these days there are plenty. And those alternative ROMs are getting really, really good. I have been running /e/OS for two years and I can't tell you a single thing I cannot do because of that (maybe a banking app started crashing once, and after I updated it, it was fine?).

The biggest thing really is that instead of Google Maps, I use one of the awesome OSM apps (Organic Maps and OSMAnd, in my case). And maybe it takes a little bit longer to get a GPS fix (I'm talking a couple of minutes, sometimes).

Re: Google is about to make life more difficult for custom ROM fans

#73

Post by palata »

colordrops wrote: post #67
nickelpro wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

99.9% of consumers do not care about this and are totally willing (and expect) to connect their phone to their Google/Apple account Not saying the grievance isn't valid, but don't fool yourself

It doesn't take a 100 million people to build a new phone ecosystem. Only a few thousand, if even that. If there is no alternative, it will get built and be usable. I avoid other open phone projects because I don't have the time and AOSP works fine, but if Google breaks it beyond usability, you better believe I'll be jumping onto one of the fully open projects even if it has major limitations.

If Google "breaks" AOSP, I am pretty sure that the next big thing will be a fork of AOSP. But that would probably be bad for Google (they probably wouldn't want Samsung + Huawei + others to start maintaining a fork of AOSP, I think).

Re: Google is about to make life more difficult for custom ROM fans

#74

Post by jraph »

palata wrote: post #65
jraph wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not really. To run Linux mobile distros on regular Android phones, you need to have an Android base because essential features of these phones are implemented in closed source user space drivers that expect an Android system. You are basically stuck with the kernel your phone came with, plus some of its user space. That's what libhybris is for. In practice, development of this is slow as far as I know, and you need s…

Sorry, I am not completely sure I understand the point you are trying to make. Yes, devices that work with the mainline kernel are better supported. Both for Android and for Mobile Linux. > In which ways the distinction is useful? Because people not making the distinction tend to conclude "you should move to a Mobile Linux instead". Which is completely wrong: while there are active Mobile Linux projects, there are ac…

> Android, today, is completely functional without Google

I know, I have used microG and all that stuff.

My point is that the way they are produced, Android phones are not built to last / be kept up to date. I don't believe it's a problem with AOSP proper, I could run the latest Android on a 12 year old intel tablet (difficult with 1G of RAM, but still). But that's because it can run a mainline Linux kernel when no Android phone currently can.

Re: Google is about to make life more difficult for custom ROM fans

#75

Post by palata »

Dwedit wrote: post #40

The much bigger thing making life difficult for Custom ROM fans is the "device fingerprint" nonsense making your device condemned to fail SafetyNet. Hope you never want to run a banking app.

Running banking apps on my /e/ OS, no problem there.

Re: Google is about to make life more difficult for custom ROM fans

#76

Post by palata »

luca020400 wrote: post #48
palata wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> A lot of people still don't see how the operating system as a whole is open source What? Just checkout the sources and go through them, maybe? > not having properly supported open source apps is not the best If your definition of "properly supported" means "supported by Google", I guess...

Supported => Supported by Google yes. I think you misread my comment, or I wasn't clear enough, I work on AOSP daily so I know very well what's in there :)

Oh, maybe I did misunderstand it, indeed. Sorry :)

Re: Google is about to make life more difficult for custom ROM fans

#77

Post by jraph »

palata wrote: post #71
jraph wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But these custom ROMs are hard to maintain especially as soon as when the phone manufacturer drops support. There's no way to get the latest AOSP on these devices forever. Hard work is required to port any new version and that's not always possible because AOSP comes to rely on newer kernel versions but you are stuck with the heavily customized one (+ the blobs) the manufacturer provided.

Ever tried LineageOS, /e/OS, GrapheneOS or CalyxOS? Of course you need to choose a supported phone, but these days there are plenty. And those alternative ROMs are getting really, really good. I have been running /e/OS for two years and I can't tell you a single thing I cannot do because of that (maybe a banking app started crashing once, and after I updated it, it was fine?). The biggest thing really is that instead…

Yes, I have. I know all this. I also know that the phone I was using back then is discontinued from what I can read from the LineageOS website. Which should not happen for a 7 years old device. And in any case, I strongly believe I should not have to use proprietary drivers.

> And maybe it takes a little bit longer to get a GPS fix (I'm talking a couple of minutes, sometimes).

That's probably related to A-GPS. The modem should be able to receive A-GPS data from the phone. It might even be able to fetch this data by itself. Have you tried microG? I had no such issues when I was using an Android phone with Lineage / microG.

Re: Google is about to make life more difficult for custom ROM fans

#78

Post by hedora »

luca020400 wrote: post #34
jeroenhd wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They're just saying they've stopped maintaining it, I'm pretty sure that puts these apps in the same situation as the Android 2 style music player that's still part of AOSP.

Their plan is to remove them altogether. Still those apps have not been maintained in years, that's the normal course of action for apps in AOSP.

I think the big question is whether they “improve” the APIs these apps require at the same time.

That would break the alternative implementations.

Re: Google is about to make life more difficult for custom ROM fans

#79

Post by TT2048 »

nirimda wrote: post #69
nickelpro wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

99.9% of consumers do not care about this and are totally willing (and expect) to connect their phone to their Google/Apple account Not saying the grievance isn't valid, but don't fool yourself

99.9% of consumers probably have never heard about custom ROMs, and I'd reckon 99.9% of consumers who do hear about custom ROMs have boring old fashioned objections like "will it break my warranty" and "if it ain't broke don't fix it" and "I wonder what's on Netflix tonight/I think I shall be washing my hair". For the few people who distrust Google enough to install LineageOS or some such, they probably distrust Goog…

I have been using GrapheneOS for a couple of years and I feel frustration about this announcement. At the same time, sounds like not much of a biggie, but I'd prefer the burden of updating the apps not to be on the GrapheneOS contributors.

On the other hand, I can see Google's arguments and "plausible deniability" that this is not Embrace, Extend, Extinguish: really nobody expects them to "Don't be Evil" anymore, security vulnerabilities in these apps are probably the last thing in their priorities, and the target audience for these apps is really small.

Re: Google is about to make life more difficult for custom ROM fans

#80

Post by palata »

jraph wrote: post #68
palata wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Parent said "add more hoops to jump through". But parent was talking about a comparison with running a Linux mobile distro on a PinePhone. Using PostmarketOS or similar (and don't get me wrong, I find PostmarketOS very cool) is still orders of magnitudes harder than using a custom ROM like /e/OS or CalyxOS. And those custom ROMs are improving fast, too. > Mobile Linux does not add hoops to jump through. The intent…

> But parent was talking about a comparison with running a Linux mobile distro on a PinePhone But the comparison works. No mobile linux distro adds hoops to jump through. Of course (Almost?) nobody thinks that mobile linux is as convenient / usable as Android right know. For many of us it's about developing an ecosystem that's truly open source / that does not rely on Google. > But again, I think dropping support for…

> But the comparison works. No mobile linux distro adds hoops to jump through.

Right. Sounds a bit pedantic to me, but okay :).

I guess my point is that AOSP is open source, and in a much better shape for mobile than Mobile Linux.

It is great to see work going on with Mobile Linux, and I find projects like PostmarketOS really cool. I just don't like how (some) Mobile Linux fans apparently seem to jump on every opportunity to say that Android is doomed and Mobile Linux is the only way.

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