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Google is about to make life more difficult for custom ROM fans

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Re: Google is about to make life more difficult for custom ROM fans

#181

Post by magnat »

Ruthalas wrote: post #146
magnat wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

QKSMS has not been updated for two years and has broken MMS support.

Do you have a suggestion for an alternative?

I use custom fork of AOSP Messaging (on local LineageOS/microG build) with some minor UI tweaks and bugfixes. I have tried all other messaging apps on F-Droid, but every single one of them was broken in some way (mostly regarding MMS support or notifications while in deep sleep) or was missing a key feature (like delivery notifications).

The problem with MMS is that there is no built in system-level support for the protocol on Android, and due to legacy of 3G network/WAP, the protocol is quite odd when compared to modern alternatives.

Re: Google is about to make life more difficult for custom ROM fans

#182

Post by rcktmrtn »

nologic01 wrote: post #159

Ok, naive question but I would dearly love to have an informed answer as another phone of mine is dying, it is still TINA and I can't for the life of me project how this will play out: The first iphone was released in 2007. That's like 15 years ago. People were probably toying with "smart" phones already few years before that. Its not that the world doesn't know how to manufacture smartphones and/or write software fo…

> Surely there is a market for such a device. 1% of a billion is a big number.

>* Are manufacturers a cartel and won't allow breaking the duopoly? (Doesn't seem plausible, Samsung toyed with Tizen)

I don't think it's a simple duopoly, but an application of Conway's law across the whole globalized tech industry [1]. Keep in mind that originally Android was the open source option, and it's been gradually become less and less amenable to that.

In my mind, I think of the "progress" of the consumer electronics industry (especially in the last 20 years) as undergoing constant and aggressive "distillation" process, converting people away from the FOSS side of the spectrum which offers freedom and control towards the locked down centralization side which offers dependence, convenience, and safety. The 1% market is basically the left over Azeotrope that can't quite be gotten rid of.

The experiments to harness that 1% market are the exception that proves the rule. Locked down centralized solutions are optimal for the tech market as it exists today. Samsung thought they could squeeze some money out of the 1% by being the "master" of Tizen, but realized that the game theory works out such that they would be better off as a servant of Android.

On top of all that, I think as the smartphone capture gets deeper and deeper, being in 1% is not even necessarily a 1-to-1 for FOSS values anymore. I used to fantasize about having a cool handheld Linux computer I could control freely. Now I'm more obsessed than ever about avoiding globalized tech, but I just don't care about smartphones anymore. I carry around an iPhone as the mark of the beast, but at least (I tell myself) I don't let it into my soul.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conway%27s_law

Re: Google is about to make life more difficult for custom ROM fans

#183

Post by fsflover »

nologic01 wrote: post #180
LegitShady wrote: post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What advantage does offering a FOSS based phone offer them?

A small but loyal customer base to start with, and a platform that can develop in directions that a duopoly would never have an interest in.

Purism is targeting exactly that, and they had to increase the price of their phone from $600 to $1300 due to the problems I mentioned in another comment.

Re: Google is about to make life more difficult for custom ROM fans

#184

Post by nologic01 »

euniceee3 wrote: post #177
nologic01 wrote: post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Because manufacturing mobile phones is hard and expensive I appreciate that, but in 2021 there were like 1.8 billion phones manufactured and sold. Are you saying that none of those existing manufacturers can afford or is interested to offer a FOSS mobile?

Check out the Volla phone. Then look at the price and imagine a retail scenario where a person is going to purchase a "no name" FOSS phone or a Samsung. The scale of the marketing is unfathomable. I agree with you. But you are assuming everyone in the world thinks logically, let alone understands why FOSS is a better option.

> But you are assuming everyone in the world thinks logically, let alone understands why FOSS is a better option.

I know and I have accepted this argument for a long time. But as things get ever more commoditised and the unease with the existing arrangements keeps monotonically growing the silence is kinda deafening.

If we could somehow get a basic white-label device going the magic of FOSS would work its miracle eventually. Think of modern linux desktops and servers. They are not for everyone but they are indispensable in their niche.

Thanks for the Volla tip. Will check it out.

Re: Google is about to make life more difficult for custom ROM fans

#185

Post by PurpleRamen »

nologic01 wrote: post #159

Ok, naive question but I would dearly love to have an informed answer as another phone of mine is dying, it is still TINA and I can't for the life of me project how this will play out: The first iphone was released in 2007. That's like 15 years ago. People were probably toying with "smart" phones already few years before that. Its not that the world doesn't know how to manufacture smartphones and/or write software fo…

Building a high quality device is a very different beast from the "small" software-projects or gadgets we get from the FOSS-sphere. And even in software there are not that many big projects who carry their whole own ecosphere. There were many projects building FOSS-Smartphpones over the years, most of them failed because of lack of ability I would say.

At the end of the day, while there are many who want FOSS-products, not many are willing to cope with bad experience for they beloved tools. So the actual market is very small if you can't deliver the daily drivers.

Re: Google is about to make life more difficult for custom ROM fans

#186

Post by hollow-moe »

deng wrote: post #171
kenmacd wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The real issues are bootloaders which cannot be unlocked I haven't run in to that lately, but an issue I find much more annoying is the lack of support around re-locking with a custom root of trust. I think a few others support it, but I've only seen mention of it on the Pixel phones (and I won't buy Google hardware after they wouldn't replace my Pixel 3 that was bricked by their EDL hardware issue).

You are right, this is another issue. With an unlocked bootloader, you'll not be able to fully pass SafetyNet, for instance. I've also seen some forum posts that this should be possible for Motorola Moto G phones, but there were some warnings that if you do that, you might not be able to unlock your phone ever again, so I've never tried...

You can bypass safetynet even with an unlocked bootloader. I'm using Lineage 20 with microg and with a bit of work with magisk modules you can get it to work. I just feel like this is again another "security feature" to make it harder for people who don't want google in their phones.

Re: Google is about to make life more difficult for custom ROM fans

#187

Post by JohnFen »

4ggr0 wrote: post #162
pyeri wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not a very clean solution but if someone (power user) wants to avoid the playstore entirely, they can perhaps do so by simply force-disabling the app (using tools like adb), and then use something like apkmirror[1] or apkpure[2] or aptoide to install the APKs for the apps directly and bypass the store entirely? [1] https://www.apkmirror.com/ [2] https://m.apkpure.com/

The problem with installing APKs directly is that you probably never update these apps again, as you'd have to manually check if you still have the current version and then download the new APK and install it again. At least that's what happened with the apps I installed that way.

As someone who loathes auto-updating applications of any sort, this is more of a win than a loss.

Re: Google is about to make life more difficult for custom ROM fans

#188

Post by NoGravitas »

Ruthalas wrote: post #146
magnat wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

QKSMS has not been updated for two years and has broken MMS support.

Do you have a suggestion for an alternative?

Simple Mobile Tools SMS is fine. Not spectacular, but fine.

Re: Google is about to make life more difficult for custom ROM fans

#189

Post by 4ggr0 »

JohnFen wrote: post #187
4ggr0 wrote: post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem with installing APKs directly is that you probably never update these apps again, as you'd have to manually check if you still have the current version and then download the new APK and install it again. At least that's what happened with the apps I installed that way.

As someone who loathes auto-updating applications of any sort, this is more of a win than a loss.

But it's not just auto-update. I can disable auto-update in the Google Play Store, but at least I easily see if updates are available and can still selectively update apps with the press of one button.

For me, the better solution would be F-Droid. Easy update process but the apps are mostly open-source etc.

Re: Google is about to make life more difficult for custom ROM fans

#190

Post by tripdout »

luca020400 wrote: post #34
jeroenhd wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They're just saying they've stopped maintaining it, I'm pretty sure that puts these apps in the same situation as the Android 2 style music player that's still part of AOSP.

Their plan is to remove them altogether. Still those apps have not been maintained in years, that's the normal course of action for apps in AOSP.

Oh wow, you're one of the guys from LineageOS right?
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