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We raised a bunch of money

fly.io

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Re: We raised a bunch of money

#461

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is Fly - a much earlier stage company and them receiving early funding is the genesis of this entire discussion. I point to Cloudflare (what I'm most familiar with). Across their entire stack of compute, storage, db, etc product lines you won't see a hint of region anywhere. It just works, everywhere. Same with Fastly/Oracle (although they like Fly are quite a ways behind Cloudflare). I suspect (hope) that as Fl…

> you won't see a hint of region anywhere. https://developers.cloudflare.com/d1/learning/data-location/ Hint Hint description wnam Western North America enam Eastern North America weur Western Europe eeur Eastern Europe apac Asia-Pacific There is no free lunch here. This is always a game of information theory and physics at the end.

If I were at Cloudflare I'd suggest calling these "geographies" where the magic still applies (any one of those geographies has at least dozens of component POPs that are invisible).

The fact remains this is somewhat down in the docs because it is automatic and invisible to the point it works well enough where most developers don't know, don't care, and aren't exposed to it in any meaningful way. Contrast this with AWS where the first thing you are presented with is picking a region where everything lives, while not clearly and explicitly explaining that many things are ultimately dependent on us-east. Cue the shock and confusion when us-east has yet another issue and those in all other regions don't understand how and why they are impacted.

You are correct about the free lunch, information theory, and physics at the end. I don't think a reasonable person can think when you write data to a pop in Tokyo that it could possibly show up in Chicago instantly. That is fundamentally impossible and always will be. I think CF does a pretty good job making it "magic" for most devs and use cases while explaining these fundamental realities and limitations to those who need to know (potentially) for whatever their application is.

Re: We raised a bunch of money

#462

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cloudflare does this although to my knowledge it's not available without an Enterprise subscription which is the only thing they offer with this level of compliance anyway. All lower plans maybe get PCI DSS and that's it. It's a valid counter to my point - while they clearly can do it locking it behind an enterprise "talk to us" subscription is lame. That said they are generally customer, market, and product savvy an…

> Amazon to basically rubber stamp these architectures and solutions with a HIPAA BAA so that companies think they can call themselves "HIPAA compliant". N-2 companies ago I was a tech lead in 2015 where we were migrating to AWS. AWS was constantly explaining which underlying services were HIPAA compliant and what you build on top of it was your responsibility. I had to answer to separate non AWS compliance folks abo…

Both anecdotal experiences but in my recent exercises with HIPAA compliance with AWS, etc they were nowhere near this explanatory/helpful.

The messaging/communication was more like what I described - "Oh yeah here's BAA you're good to go".

Re: We raised a bunch of money

#464
post #17

“ The result of this is an Internet where all of the world's CRUD apps are hosted in Loudoun County, VA (motto: "where tradition meets innovation"), at Amazon's us-east-1 in Ashburn, a city with so many Rails apps that one of them was elected to the county Board of Supervisors.” So true it hurts

How much of the raise is directly attributable to the fact that their early staff has at least two excellent writers on it? Their brand marketing is impeccable as a result. Every post on their blog comes through with this very clear, slightly snarky voice. If you want to be a famous hacker, you must also be a slightly (industry) famous author.

Hmm so their content marketing strategy has been very effective it sounds like

Was it just articles or more?

Re: We raised a bunch of money

#465
post #40

Okay so they raised 100m which means they need to work towards a 1bn exit. And if they want to keep their momentum going their r&d cost will go through the roof. Because they have to build the whole stack and it all has to be rock solid (eventually). It’s an immense engineering effort. I get how this looks profitable on paper, because Fly charges for compute, and hardware and bandwidth are cheap. But the real expense…

Pardon but what are SBC costs?

Re: We raised a bunch of money

#466

“ The result of this is an Internet where all of the world's CRUD apps are hosted in Loudoun County, VA (motto: "where tradition meets innovation"), at Amazon's us-east-1 in Ashburn, a city with so many Rails apps that one of them was elected to the county Board of Supervisors.” So true it hurts

People forget AWS is 20 years old. When I routinely remind people of that fact they often remark (incredulously) with "WHAT? Really?" When I think about it the entire paradigm of "regions" itself seems completely antiquated in the grand scheme of things. AWS has made a few moves on this but in the end you're largely still tied to this fundamental regional concept in terms of control planes, etc and you incur the ridi…

These days, "edge" just means "has more than N data centers" (where N depends on the speaker). Fly and Cloudflare have regions too, try `flyctl platform regions` or see https://www.cloudflare.com/network/

Re: We raised a bunch of money

#467

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People forget AWS is 20 years old. When I routinely remind people of that fact they often remark (incredulously) with "WHAT? Really?" When I think about it the entire paradigm of "regions" itself seems completely antiquated in the grand scheme of things. AWS has made a few moves on this but in the end you're largely still tied to this fundamental regional concept in terms of control planes, etc and you incur the ridi…

These days, "edge" just means "has more than N data centers" (where N depends on the speaker). Fly and Cloudflare have regions too, try `flyctl platform regions` or see https://www.cloudflare.com/network/

Cloudflare does not have "regions": your stuff runs everywhere on our network. And we can be really smart about where's the best place: https://blog.cloudflare.com/announcing-workers-smart-placeme...

Re: We raised a bunch of money

#468
post #404
post #242

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ashburn does not have "like three restaurants". The datacenter zoned part of the city has "like three restaurants". If you ever drove >5 minutes from those large shed warehouses, you'd know what you're talking about.

You are probably thinking of Sterling, Chantilly, etc. Ashburn is literally like the Embassy Suites next to the Five Guys, the Aloft next to the taco place, Equinix, Digital Reality, Verizon, NTT, CenturyLink, etc.

I lived here my entire life, I know where Sterling is and how it's a 15 minute drive from there to Chantilly (which is not in Loudoun County btw).

Take a look at this map here: https://www.loudoun.gov/DocumentCenter/View/171141/2022Elect...

Ashburn is not literally just one shopping plaza. It's a giant area zoned into different parts of datacenter, suburbs, and commercial sections.

Even forgetting all of this, just type "restaurants in Ashburn" into Google Maps see the plethora of results.

Just because someone has some imaginary boundary of what constitutes as Ashburn doesn't make it definitively small.

Re: We raised a bunch of money

#470

Earlier quoted context omitted.

These days, "edge" just means "has more than N data centers" (where N depends on the speaker). Fly and Cloudflare have regions too, try `flyctl platform regions` or see https://www.cloudflare.com/network/

Cloudflare does not have "regions": your stuff runs everywhere on our network. And we can be really smart about where's the best place: https://blog.cloudflare.com/announcing-workers-smart-placeme...

That sounds like "Cloudflare automated region handling", not that regions don't exist.

For example, make your app talk to two backends in different EC2 regions, and now none of the smart placement helps you.

The poster we're replying to seems to be gleefully ignorant of speed of light limits and fundamental distributed systems challenges.

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