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Volvo Cars Adopts Tesla's NACS Port in the United States, Canada and Mexico

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Re: Volvo Cars Adopts Tesla's NACS Port in the United States, Canada and Mexico

#141

Post by vel0city »

xeromal wrote: post #139
vel0city wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Luckily all the CCS chargers I've charged at which were installed within the last year or so had regular credit card terminals which I could pay with phone tap to pay or EMV chipped cards.

In my experience, I couldn't trust those chargers to not fail at some point charging when I was away from my car eating lunch or walking around a park. The reliability was just a huge pain in the rear.

In my experience, I never had a single time where the charging got interrupted nor have I had any other kind of other failure to charge properly on my car.

Re: Volvo Cars Adopts Tesla's NACS Port in the United States, Canada and Mexico

#142

Post by gorpy7 »

rootusrootus wrote: post #98
constantly wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Speaking for myself, but although I loathe Elon and deride Tesla’s build quality, there’s truly nothing like driving around a Plaid Model S for it’s absolutely tearjerking speed. The weird steering wheel continues to annoy, however. Stepping back though, one can get a performance Model 3 very inexpensively, relatively, and as far as I can tell or have seen, no other manufacturer outside of Porsche (with BMW making so…

> no other manufacturer outside of Porsche (with BMW making some minor inroads) has electric cars close to as fast. Off the top of my head, the Ford Mach-E GT and the Kia EV6 GT are also sub-4 second cars. I expect the blinding acceleration to become just a feature most EVs have some version of. Even the Bolt is pretty quick for a compliance car (nearly as fast as a VW GTI, the quintessential hot hatch). Personally,…

the plaid, i believe, is sub 2s. it is a vanguard product. i believe they use the same motor in the semi- so, in hindsight, they started with impractical fun but had an eye on practical power down the way. This is rather smart, no?

Re: Volvo Cars Adopts Tesla's NACS Port in the United States, Canada and Mexico

#143

Post by vel0city »

hedora wrote: post #90
vel0city wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Luckily all the CCS chargers I've charged at which were installed within the last year or so had regular credit card terminals which I could pay with phone tap to pay or EMV chipped cards.

The CCS chargers here all have those, but they don't work at Electrify America, evGo, ChargePoint or the smaller networks kiosks I've seen. The one counterexample was that I found an EA terminal with a working credit card reader, but it did not work reliably. For instance, you had to tap Visa, but insert chip for MC, and swipe Amex (I might have those constraints wrong), and if you did the wrong thing, the charge cir…

I just used one at an evgo station that worked with a chipped Visa card the other day. I had another time a few weeks ago with tap to pay Visa through Google Wallet.

I've used chipped cards at Chargepoint work on many occasions.

And I've never had a plug and charge session fail at EA.

Re: Volvo Cars Adopts Tesla's NACS Port in the United States, Canada and Mexico

#144

Post by vel0city »

matthewdgreen wrote: post #111
amluto wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would settle for the basics before insisting on actual innovation. I also want chargers to allow using a credit card (or Apple Pay or whatever) as an alternative to whatever is programmed into the car.

Sure. What I'm describing is essentially Apple Pay, just not limited to mobile phones and an NFC interface. If the payment card industry had looked a decade forward and developed something like Apple Pay for IoT devices, then you could enter a credit card to your car and it would make the payment directly over the charging cable. They didn't do this, and as a result we have to use NFC, magstripes, proprietary wire pr…

Europe uses the same CCS payment exchange protocol for EV charging payment communication as the US.

Re: Volvo Cars Adopts Tesla's NACS Port in the United States, Canada and Mexico

#145

Post by vel0city »

matthewdgreen wrote: post #74
amluto wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IMO the non-Tesla networks thoroughly misunderstood the market. People are willing to drive, specifically, to a Tesla charging station because they have the biggest network (and they’re fairly reliable, but anyone could achieve that). Other than that, there is no particular network effect, and drivers don’t want a network effect . Drivers want a charger at a convenient location that works, but there is no more inhere…

The lack of innovation in payment technologies is a huge barrier. It should be entirely feasible to "set up a payment card" within a secure computing system like a car's computer (perhaps using an inexpensive commodity secure enclave processor), and then securely pay for charging services over an arbitrary wire protocol like NACS/CCS without the need to make an account for each provider . Apple and Google each manage…

> and doesn't exist in the US.

It does exist and I've used it many times. Its the exact same protocol.

Re: Volvo Cars Adopts Tesla's NACS Port in the United States, Canada and Mexico

#146

Post by vel0city »

brewdad wrote: post #79
SomeCallMeTim wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most of those 2M EV chargers only need to be Level 2. It makes MUCH more sense to use J1772 by default in those 2M chargers, since every EV other than Tesla currently uses that standard, and Tesla can easily use an adapter. So CCS hasn't "lost". In fact, it's likely to remain a standard. In fact, there are some 5,200 CCS charging station locations in the US, compared to only about 1,800 Supercharger stations. [1] A s…

How many of those CCS stations are actually up and running properly? I can't stand Musk and Tesla and haven't yet made the jump into EVs but I plan to soon and everything I've seen online suggests Telsa chargers just work while EA and other CCS brands are extremely hit and miss.

Other than new stations that just haven't come online, I've never once pulled up to a location and failed to charge at a decent rate. Similar experiences with most people I've talked to actually at the stations I'm charging at.

I'm sure wherever these reviewers are doing their reviews, they're getting bad experiences. But personally I've never once had a problem. Maybe bad maintenance is more of a localized thing?

Re: Volvo Cars Adopts Tesla's NACS Port in the United States, Canada and Mexico

#147

Post by vel0city »

theluketaylor wrote: post #128
dghughes wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My Canadian town of 70,000 has about 100 public CCS charging stations but one for Telsa. So no not great. It's already there so why are they switching? A GM executive was on the news saying how Canadians complained in a survey there were not enough charging stations. I say BS. This sudden study appears and contradicts the 10:1 ratio of CCS to Tesla charger in my town?

CCS or J-1772? 100 DC fast charging plugs would be a lot, I'm guessing most of these 100 are actually J-1772 L2 AC plugs and not CCS combo 1. It's pretty cheap to get an adaptor for J-1772 Tesla in either direction for AC usage, so in practice AC plugs are basically universal. DC adaptors are much more expensive due to needing really high kW capable connectors and often require active communication within the adaptor…

Now that Tesla chargers can talk the same CCS protocol and Teslas these days can speak CCS, newer adapters can just be dumb adapters either way.

Re: Volvo Cars Adopts Tesla's NACS Port in the United States, Canada and Mexico

#148

Post by xeromal »

vel0city wrote: post #141
xeromal wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In my experience, I couldn't trust those chargers to not fail at some point charging when I was away from my car eating lunch or walking around a park. The reliability was just a huge pain in the rear.

In my experience, I never had a single time where the charging got interrupted nor have I had any other kind of other failure to charge properly on my car.

I live in LA where chargers are very used so it's probably just a matter of the locale you're in.

I've had chargers fail at:

* EVGo at Warner Center

* The greenlots at The LADWP on Ventura and Corbin(ish)

* Flo at reseda and oxnard

* Blink or whatever at Kaiser and DeSoto

* Blink at the Ikea and burbank

To name a few. Tons more floating around in my head between my two EVs. Every single one of them likes to fail at some arbitrary time when I'm far away from my car

Re: Volvo Cars Adopts Tesla's NACS Port in the United States, Canada and Mexico

#149

Post by WorldMaker »

throwaway5959 wrote: post #137
WorldMaker wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Plus Aptera and Rivian, if you want to include the smaller American companies.

Aptera is so cool. Love that they’re based out of San Diego and do a lot of work in house.

I think so too. I've thrown a tiny bit of money at Aptera because I think they are the most interesting car company in America right now with the most interesting car planned for a US launch in the next couple of years. I'm following them with great interest.

Re: Volvo Cars Adopts Tesla's NACS Port in the United States, Canada and Mexico

#150

Post by ethanbond »

tzs wrote: post #138
ethanbond wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But why wouldn't someone (really, anyone ) be just as equipped to build out NACS stations? Each new manufacturer switching over to NACS means the really big companies (bp, Shell) who already have tons of physical land and infrastructure, will be more incentivized to serve NACS, doesn't it?

I'm not sure that the current locations that companies like BP and Shell have for gas stations would work for EV charging station. According to what I've read most gas stations make very little profit if any on gas sales. It is the things they sell in the accompanying convenience store where they make their money. An average ICE "charging" at a gas station adds mileage around 15x faster than the fastest charging EV a…

Well I think the business model would change a bit and e.g. you’d probably see convenience stores being converted into something more lounge-y. No matter how you slice it, having real estate at every high-traffic location in America is a much better position to be in than not having such real estate. Especially given that those companies have gargantuan war chests, are technologically, logistically, and financially extremely sophisticated, etc etc. Not to mention they also own the fuel sources that generate most of the electricity, and they’re the largest players even in the next generation energy sources.

There might be something I’m missing, I just don’t see why this would be anything close to a durable advantage for Tesla.

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