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U.S. pedestrian deaths reach a 40-year high

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Re: U.S. pedestrian deaths reach a 40-year high

#581

Post by strix_varius »

jeffbee wrote: post #111
ethanbond wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would COVID/lockdowns have “changed the way people drive?” Any proposed mechanism? Seems more likely you had a lot of shifting around of people’s driving (e.g. city dwellers moving to suburbs)

It has changed the population of drivers on the road. Wealthy, highly educated professionals are driving less because they work at home more. "Essential workers" are driving as much or more. They are biased toward poorer and less educated people, who are also as a population worse drivers with worse vehicles compared to the population staying at home. These shifts in driver population are more than enough to account…

> These shifts in driver population are more than enough to account for the change.

This is an interesting and maybe even plausible hypothesis, but it lacks any data whatsoever for the final claim.

Re: U.S. pedestrian deaths reach a 40-year high

#582

Post by strix_varius »

oezi wrote: post #504
flutas wrote: post #280

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I honestly think it's a "do both" issue. We seriously need to radically re-engineer most roads around me, but the police also really need to step up enforcement. Before 2020 I could count the number of cars with either no plates or expired temp plates on one hand, since 2020 the number of cars with no plates is crazy, and the number of cars with months expired temp tags is just insane. That also tells me those cars d…

Why do you need to get pulled over for this? In Europe you will just get a letter with your fine.

What? Without pulling you over, how would they know who you are in order to mail you a fine? The point of the plate is to identify the car, after all. Otherwise, you're just an anonymous moving 2-ton hunk of metal.

Re: U.S. pedestrian deaths reach a 40-year high

#583

Post by pandaman »

strix_varius wrote: post #577
pandaman wrote: post #561

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The conversation is about pedestrians walking into traffic while staring in their phones, jaywalking in other words. Please don't try to ad hominem, it just shows that you don't have any arguments of substance and degrades the discussion.

> pedestrians walking into traffic while staring in their phones, jaywalking in other words This is... not the definition of jaywalking. It is legal to use one's phone while crossing the street. Aside - history of the term "jaywalking," from Wikipedia: "The word was promoted by pro-automobile interests in the 1920s, according to historian and alternative transportation advocate Peter D. Norton. Today, in the US, the…

It depends on the state, I guess, in which state you can walk into traffic without paying attention, with or without phone, legally? Please be specific. And yes, I've seen this article in Wikipedia, it forgot to explain how pro-automotive interests managed to enforce that in USSR, for example.

Re: U.S. pedestrian deaths reach a 40-year high

#584

Post by masklinn »

olyjohn wrote: post #560
jacurtis wrote: post #283

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There's no reason a 1/2 ton pickup should be bigger than a 1994 Ford F150 It is funny that we still call trucks like the F150, Ram 1500, Silverado 1500, etc as 1/2 ton pickups. Even though they are still officially categorized like that by all the manufacturers, Edmunds, Motortrend, KBB, and so on, they are actually essentially 1 ton pickups. Our "light-duty pickups" (which is their official classification) are act…

They are called 1500s. So they should be 3/4 ton trucks, no? 1500lbs is literally 3/4 of a ton.

IIRC it’s basically a different generation of naming. 1/2 ton trucks got bigger and increased to 3/4, manufacturers labelled them 1500 (but the 1/2 ton informal naming remained), then they kept growing but the class remained.

So now you have light duty trucks with >2000 lbs payload, badged 1500, and called half ton.

Re: U.S. pedestrian deaths reach a 40-year high

#585

Post by masklinn »

strix_varius wrote: post #576
swexbe wrote: post #527

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just rent a god damn trailer when you need one. It costs nothing and is available at every gas station (at least where I live).

Having recently rented a trailer, this doesn't mirror my experience at all. Picking it up took an hour and was a pain in the ass. You still need a vehicle that can haul a trailer, and a compatible hitch. You have to drop it off by a certain time, so now you're rushing. If 3 other people in the area decided to move on that same weekend, you're now screwed because you have no access to equipment.

> You still need a vehicle that can haul a trailer, and a compatible hitch.

Pretty much everything above compact can haul a small trailer, and surely they all use a basic ball hitch?

Re: U.S. pedestrian deaths reach a 40-year high

#586

Post by raydev »

SV_BubbleTime wrote: post #566
raydev wrote: post #537

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hang on, the F-150 and Silverado started ballooning in the late 90s. The Hummer came, Nissan introduced their Titan truck in 2004, the Toyota Tundra got massive. All years before 2008. Regulations may have well prevented reversal, but the buying public was clearly already making its preferences loud and clear.

Airbags, crash testing, NHTSA, fuel injection / data bussing, small changes to CAFE, comfort options, and emissions equipment all made vehicles get slightly larger, that’s true. But not “ballooning”. The 2004 Nissan Titan you mentioned was smaller in every single dimension and aspect over its comparative 2004 Dodge Ram. That was Nissan trying to play big boy, but was nothing unusual. I’m talking about everything. Tak…

> I’m talking about everything. Take an entire line from a MFG and look at its model over model changes.

Yes, I agree that every car was getting bigger well before 2008.

Re: U.S. pedestrian deaths reach a 40-year high

#587

Post by blharr »

ghostbrainalpha wrote: post #235
westpfelia wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I dont have an answer for why. Just it has. I live in a major city in the midwest and its wild how often I see people drive with zero regard for anyone else. Running red lights and almost hitting someone, cutting people off, swerving in traffic erratically to be faster. Its honestly scary some days.

I can't believe we are blaming this ENTIRELY on drivers... with people in the comments even claiming that the quality of drivers has gone done because work from home has put more poor people on the road. Just look at the pedestrians you pass on your next drive. Count how many of them are looking at their phone while walking. I just did this and it was 4/10. I think Pedestrian behavior and awareness *might be a little…

Look at pedestrians? Look at drivers. Many many drivers will text, talk, or use their phones constantly. Considering that the driver is the one operating the dangerous machine, their attentiveness is much more important

Re: U.S. pedestrian deaths reach a 40-year high

#588

Post by actionablefiber »

somenameforme wrote: post #580
actionablefiber wrote: post #250

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The number was 4,109 in 2009[1]. In 2022 the number is 7,509, per TFA. We are in the middle of an alarming rebound that has significantly outpaced population growth. [1] https://www.nytimes.com/2019/03/07/us/pedestrian-deaths.html

Like mentioned it's not just population growth. It's population growth alongside the fact that there's more pedestrians than ever. And unfortunately I missed probably also perhaps the single biggest factor: smart phones. Not only do you have more pedestrians than ever, they're also now going to be walking around with their faces shoved into a smart phone instead of paying attention to their surroundings. That pedestr…

> That pedestrian deaths were higher at some point in the past is what's the real story here.

I deeply disagree with this take. I am living in a world in which boxes of metal fly around my unprotected flesh at high speeds, and "will I make it home safe today" is not only a dice roll for my life, but one in which the odds are getting worse by the day. One thing that keeps these numbers comparatively low is a pervasive culture of fear among people who walk, since they need to keep their head on a swivel and be prepared to save their lives at a moment's notice from someone else's negligent behavior in a motor vehicle. Another thing that keeps these numbers comparatively low is that many people in more walkable areas choose to walk less, or not at all, due to that danger. Another thing that keeps these numbers comparatively low is the proliferation of exurban developments in the past four decades in which walking anywhere is an absolute nonstarter.

It is interesting, perhaps, that pedestrian deaths used to be worse. It is not a consolation, nor is it the "real story."

I would say the "real story" is that pedestrian deaths are rebounding in the U.S. even though in European nations pedestrian deaths continued falling significantly after 2009.[1]

[1]https://usa.streetsblog.org/2020/10/10/exactly-how-far-u-s-s... (one of the images appears to have had an image link break, so refer to https://web.archive.org/web/20201101012509/https://usa.stree...)

Re: U.S. pedestrian deaths reach a 40-year high

#589

Post by strix_varius »

masklinn wrote: post #585
strix_varius wrote: post #576

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Having recently rented a trailer, this doesn't mirror my experience at all. Picking it up took an hour and was a pain in the ass. You still need a vehicle that can haul a trailer, and a compatible hitch. You have to drop it off by a certain time, so now you're rushing. If 3 other people in the area decided to move on that same weekend, you're now screwed because you have no access to equipment.

> You still need a vehicle that can haul a trailer, and a compatible hitch. Pretty much everything above compact can haul a small trailer, and surely they all use a basic ball hitch?

> Pretty much everything above compact can haul a small trailer

Not according to trailer rental companies. And since it's their trailer, not yours, they get to make the rules - yet another way it's more convenient to own a truck.

> and surely they all use a basic ball hitch?

I had to go buy one, and there were three different main sizes of ball hitch, so there doesn't appear to be a single "basic ball hitch."

PS, I don't own a truck, but this experience - and many similar days where I ended up renting a van or similar - have led me to eye the Maverick.

Re: U.S. pedestrian deaths reach a 40-year high

#590

Post by fzeroracer »

pandaman wrote: post #561
cmh89 wrote: post #559

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Who said anything about jaywalking? >t's your responsibility to follow the rules. Sure! And motorist need to follow the rules of the road. Unfortunately when they break the rules, which they do most of the time, they can easily end someones life. I'm guessing you're one of the good ones who definitely doesn't speed every time they are in the car.

The conversation is about pedestrians walking into traffic while staring in their phones, jaywalking in other words. Please don't try to ad hominem, it just shows that you don't have any arguments of substance and degrades the discussion.

You're the one that brought up jaywalking when that wasn't the crux of the argument, are confused about what jaywalking actually entails and then you accuse them of trying to ad hominem.
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