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Ignoring boys' emotional needs fuels public health risks

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Re: Ignoring boys' emotional needs fuels public health risks

#251

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So would you say that the commenter you’re replying to needs to stop complaining and just fix his own problems? And that in general men need to quit talking about feelings of sadness and disappointment (aka throwing a pity party)? Because, my guy, lol. The irony is absolutely impeccable.

They are complaining but didn’t participate in the planning and therefore surrendered all agency Only thing left is complain why they didn’t think of him when he wasn’t around

> didn’t participate in the planning and therefore surrendered all agency

>

> Only thing left is complain why they didn’t think of him when he wasn’t around

Which is a totally valid complaint man. That’s what the whole fuckin article is about. That’s what all this is about. A man is allowed to feel disappointed people didn’t think of him when he wasn’t around, and he’s allowed to express that disappointment out loud. You’re literally perpetuating the cycle by enforcing toxic ideas of masculinity, this idea that you either fix your own problems or shut the fuck up about them.

It’s a self-defeating way to live.

Edit: your comment is god-tier irony because “not being thought of when you’re not around” is like the core of a lot of men’s emotional wounds. As in, a child’s experience of emotional neglect is the caregiver not thinking of the child when they’re not around, so the fact you are holding up the idea of complaining about that for ridicule is so on-the-nose it is actually hurting my soul on your behalf.

Re: Ignoring boys' emotional needs fuels public health risks

#252

tbh its not just ignoring their emotional needs, painting this as an emotional needs problems just characterizes them as women and basically claims that men need to be treated like women, which is not true. its ignoring their developmental needs you need some kind of expertise to feel like you can make even the most basic of professions out of you need responsibility you need role models that you can choose and can t…

Painting what as an emotional needs problem -- the issue of boys not being raised with sufficient regard to their emotional needs?

How are they (the boys?) being characterised as women?

Who is claiming that men need to be treated like women?

Why are you so concerned by femininity?

Re: Ignoring boys' emotional needs fuels public health risks

#253
post #184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Last year there was some graffiti near my house: "Trans rights are human rights!" Okay, fair enough. Then a few metres later, in the same colour and obviously by the same person: "Kill all men!" People will say "yes, but it doesn't mean literally kill all men", and of course it doesn't. But it's not exactly positive, is it?

I really wanna ask whoever wrote that if trans men are included

Speaking of which, I felt [1] was a rather interesting article on that. Multiple people are interviewed and their experiences differ, but stuff like this really stands out, and especially that last paragraph is pretty relevant here:

Prior to my transition, I was an outspoken radical feminist. I spoke up often, loudly and with confidence. I was encouraged to speak up. I was given awards for my efforts, literally — it was like, “Oh, yeah, speak up, speak out.” When I speak up now, I am often given the direct or indirect message that I am “mansplaining,” “taking up too much space” or “asserting my white male heterosexual privilege.” Never mind that I am a first-generation Mexican American, a transsexual man, and married to the same woman I was with prior to my transition.

I find the assertion that I am now unable to speak out on issues I find important offensive and I refuse to allow anyone to silence me. My ability to empathize has grown exponentially, because I now factor men into my thinking and feeling about situations. Prior to my transition, I rarely considered how men experienced life or what they thought, wanted or liked about their lives. I have learned so much about the lives of men through my friendships with men

What continues to strike me is the significant reduction in friendliness and kindness now extended to me in public spaces. It now feels as though I am on my own: No one, outside of family and close friends, is paying any attention to my well-being.

I can recall a moment where this difference hit home. A couple of years into my medical gender transition, I was traveling on a public bus early one weekend morning. There were six people on the bus, including me. One was a woman. She was talking on a mobile phone very loudly and remarked that “men are such a–holes.” I immediately looked up at her and then around at the other men. Not one had lifted his head to look at the woman or anyone else. The woman saw me look at her and then commented to the person she was speaking with about “some a–hole on the bus right now looking at me.” I was stunned, because I recall being in similar situations, but in the reverse, many times: A man would say or do something deemed obnoxious or offensive, and I would find solidarity with the women around me as we made eye contact, rolled our eyes and maybe even commented out loud on the situation. I’m not sure I understand why the men did not respond, but it made a lasting impression on me.

[1]: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/local/wp/2018/07/20/feat...

Re: Ignoring boys' emotional needs fuels public health risks

#254
post #11

> New research shows that when fathers are present and emotionally invested in children’s lives, they are more likely to develop a stronger sense of self-worth and excel in everything from school to relationships. Regardless of the debate on how tough (or not) love should be, the absent fathers issue seems like something concrete and impactful that we should be trying to address.

> absent fathers issue seems like something concrete and impactful There is a general corruption of the concept of masculinity in American culture. It’s similar to what’s happened to the symbol of the American flag, but more insidious. When I say masculinity, or masculine values, what do you think of? When you think of someone who values their masculinity, who do you perceive? Now do the same for femininity. Which mo…

I don't understand the link with the flag. Can you explain?

Re: Ignoring boys' emotional needs fuels public health risks

#255

As a black guy I don't remember a friend ever saying "black people suck" to my face. But I've heard people I'm close with, both women and men, say that "men suck" countless times. I think a lot of people who don't see themselves as "biased" still carry a lot of bias when it comes to gender, and it has an impact.

Misandry is normalized in society. Whenever you encounter a baseless attack on men just reverse the roles and you'll realize that there'd be pitchforks for treating women as anything other than paragons of virtue. Entire entertainment genres are built around portraying men as inept fools who can be looked down upon by the opposite sex. Seinfeld is one of the few sitcoms where a female character is as flawed as the me…

It's not that men are portrayed as fools and women are not. It's more likely that women in the shows you are describing are there as fillers and not as characters of their own right -flawed or not-.

Re: Ignoring boys' emotional needs fuels public health risks

#256

> many young men don’t seek emotional support when they need it because they fear being perceived as weak and ineffective. I would be curious to see a study on what happens to those men who do seek it. As in every last case I anecdotally am aware of, that perception quickly became reality and those men regretted it.

Brene Brown studied it. It does not turn out well for men:

> I was not prepared to hear over and over from men how the women — the mothers, sisters, girlfriends, wives — in their lives are constantly criticizing them for not being open and vulnerable and intimate, all the while they are standing in front of that cramped wizard closet where their men are huddled inside, adjusting the curtain and making sure no one sees in and no one gets out. There was a moment when I was driving home from an interview with a small group of men and thought, Holy shit. I am the patriarchy. Here’s the painful pattern that emerged from my research with men: We ask them to be vulnerable, we beg them to let us in, and we plead with them to tell us when they’re afraid, but the truth is that most women can’t stomach it. In those moments when real vulnerability happens in men, most of us recoil with fear and that fear manifests as everything from disappointment to disgust.

I posted this on HN before, and out of the woodworks came all the anecdotes of bad reactions to male vulnerability. I strongly advise other men to not discuss their feelings in depth with any woman they have romantic interest in, and possibly women in general since I've seen mothers similarly affected.

Re: Ignoring boys' emotional needs fuels public health risks

#257
post #188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some people do mean it though edit: radicalism is a real thing

> People will say "yes, but it doesn't mean literally kill all men", and of course it doesn't. As an honest question: why “of course it doesn’t”?

[flagged]

Re: Ignoring boys' emotional needs fuels public health risks

#258

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Misandry is normalized in society. Whenever you encounter a baseless attack on men just reverse the roles and you'll realize that there'd be pitchforks for treating women as anything other than paragons of virtue. Entire entertainment genres are built around portraying men as inept fools who can be looked down upon by the opposite sex. Seinfeld is one of the few sitcoms where a female character is as flawed as the me…

> Seinfeld is one of the few sitcoms where a female character is as flawed as the men. You couldn't even do that show today. It's Always Sunny in Philadelphia? Succession? Yellow Jackets? The Righteous Gemstones? Beef? White Lotus? House of The Dragon? You could argue about percentages but it is in fact extremely easy to do a show with flawed female characters today.

Interesting, maybe: Are any of those women not white? Aside from Beef, which I'm not sure counts as much since the actor was also the writer and the show doesn't have any main characters that aren't asian.

Re: Ignoring boys' emotional needs fuels public health risks

#259

It is absolutely true that boys have been neglected. But the contempt of men is a recent phenomenon. Feminism has a great deal to do with it, demonizing masculinity by construing all men as brutes and promoting the false doctrine that men are unnecessary, that women are self-sufficient, that the patriarchy is some kind of evil oppressive thing. All of that is false. Men and women are complementary , which is to say t…

> There's a reason virtually every culture is patriarchal.

It's because men are physically stronger than women. That's it. That's all it is.

Re: Ignoring boys' emotional needs fuels public health risks

#260
I'm mid 30s now and my childhood is full of instances of me being treated with contempt for being a boy by my teachers and female peers. Like, outright mocking in ways by teachers that in retrospect I would consider nearly traumatic and abusive.

Maybe public, unashamed contempt is more recent?

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