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Ignoring boys' emotional needs fuels public health risks

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Re: Ignoring boys' emotional needs fuels public health risks

#221

Post by abracadaniel »

dpifke wrote: post #65
jl6 wrote: post #11

> New research shows that when fathers are present and emotionally invested in children’s lives, they are more likely to develop a stronger sense of self-worth and excel in everything from school to relationships. Regardless of the debate on how tough (or not) love should be, the absent fathers issue seems like something concrete and impactful that we should be trying to address.

I think the "absentee father" issue would be easy to address: have the courts stop favoring mothers as custodial parents in divorces. Of the divorced couples I know with children, the mothers were awarded custody in every single case , often over the strenuous objections of the fathers and other family members like grandparents (and in one case, even in the face of documented abuse by the mother). I feel like studies…

In the US it depends heavily on the state, but as I understand it, the stats on the mothers getting custody are misleading. Overwhelmingly, the fathers are giving up custody and not fighting for it. When they do, it is roughly equal, though some studies suggest bias one way or the other.

I’m not finding great primary sources, but here’s some articles on it https://legaljobs.io/blog/child-custody-statistics/ https://www.liveabout.com/child-custody-there-is-no-gender-b...

Re: Ignoring boys' emotional needs fuels public health risks

#222

Post by mattdeboard »

foogazi wrote: post #213
ineedasername wrote: post #95

This plays out at all levels. I felt extremely insulted just a few days ago when my youngest’s preschool held a gathering to celebrate their “graduation” to pre-school. At least 4 times mothers were called on to step forward— once to have a song sung to them, another to receive a flower, etc. Fathers were not mentioned at all. This prompted me to look around, get a rough sense of the distribution… Counting the kids &…

[flagged]

So would you say that the commenter you’re replying to needs to stop complaining and just fix his own problems? And that in general men need to quit talking about feelings of sadness and disappointment (aka throwing a pity party)? Because, my guy, lol. The irony is absolutely impeccable.

Re: Ignoring boys' emotional needs fuels public health risks

#223

Post by xwdv »

michaelt wrote: post #66
rich_sasha wrote: post #12

My impression is, men are stuck in a world where they are told not to be men. Toxic masculinity is perhaps a thing, but boys are told endlessly how they shouldn't behave and how their nature is flawed. Girls on the other hand, all is well.

> Girls on the other hand, all is well. Girls, on the other hand, get told their body is flawed. Gotta constantly be on a diet, and spend like an hour a day on beauty stuff. We are all victims of society.

Most of that is told to them by other women.

Re: Ignoring boys' emotional needs fuels public health risks

#224

Post by klik99 »

Panzer04 wrote: post #119
klik99 wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah exactly. I let this kind of thing slide because obviously the problems facing minorities/women as groups are far worse than the problems facing men as a group, but just shifting the conversation from "I think group A of people is the problem" to "I think group B of people is the problem" is creating downstream problems. And there are very real issues facing men - suicide rates are dramatic enough to indicate tha…

What makes you say the problems facing people other than man are far worse? I'm genuinely curious, because often conversation around these topics will go along the lines of "well, women have to worry about getting beaten up" (or (sexually) assaulted, etc), but men have problems too! The above attitude I feel like minimises men's problems - the implicit assumption is that everyone else has it worse, whether that attit…

I was wrong to use the word "obviously", and would change it to "in my opinion" if I could still edit that post. And definitely did not intend to minimize mens problems - I'm a man myself and have first hand experience. I've had this conversation with a friend who is a outspoken feminist who I felt erased the problems men faced.

I don't have time to show my thoughts with any objective metrics, so I'm just going to lay out how I see things, so this will be touchy-feely. This is merely my opinion and I have no problem with people disagreeing.

I think the biggest impact is in how people can function in modern society - pay gap, positions of power, tokenization - a good book is "Invisible Man" by Ralph Waldo Ellison which is about more than being black in America but about being an individual that everyone wants to put in a box or a particular group - he's invisible because people don't see the individual. It's universal, and everyone feels that to some degree, but the degree I feel it as a white male is much smaller. Basically your ability to project your will on the world is easy mode for white male (btw - me).

Anecdote alert: For example I was literally just talking to an old friend who I've worked with in the past who is a great architect but kept getting the in-the-middle-of-nowhere projects at a very well known and old NYC firm, so she started her own architecture business and is doing quite well.

But not that it makes things easy for men! Because there is also expectation to be a provider, suck up your emotions and be tough. These things, which some point to as "the problem" are harming men as well and should be addressed. And this is where it gets very messy - some of the things that are "evidence" that men are privileged are also things that harm men in non-obvious ways. And as for the "easy to project your will", there is also an expectation that you have to and you're a failure if you don't. Why can't someone live a simple life without feeling like a failure?

Ultimately I think the ideal goal should be to not push gender based expectations - both for male and female.

Re: Ignoring boys' emotional needs fuels public health risks

#225

Post by flybrand »

arp242 wrote: post #184
caditinpiscinam wrote: post #29

As a black guy I don't remember a friend ever saying "black people suck" to my face. But I've heard people I'm close with, both women and men, say that "men suck" countless times. I think a lot of people who don't see themselves as "biased" still carry a lot of bias when it comes to gender, and it has an impact.

Last year there was some graffiti near my house: "Trans rights are human rights!" Okay, fair enough. Then a few metres later, in the same colour and obviously by the same person: "Kill all men!" People will say "yes, but it doesn't mean literally kill all men", and of course it doesn't. But it's not exactly positive, is it?

It was written on a wall, doesn’t that mean it is literal?

Re: Ignoring boys' emotional needs fuels public health risks

#226

Post by mikrotikker »

throwaway675309 wrote: post #203
Panzer04 wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What makes you say the problems facing people other than man are far worse? I'm genuinely curious, because often conversation around these topics will go along the lines of "well, women have to worry about getting beaten up" (or (sexually) assaulted, etc), but men have problems too! The above attitude I feel like minimises men's problems - the implicit assumption is that everyone else has it worse, whether that attit…

I don't wanna get into a whole thing, but if you stop to think for maybe 10 seconds, you'd realize that the problems women face (physically, socially, economically ,etc) are incomparably worse than what men face. - How about the fact that in some countries women can't even show their hair, have the right to drive or vote? - How about the fact that women are several times more likely to be sexually assaulted? - How ab…

Its a tit for tat and it probably averages out. Everyone has it shitty:

- How about the fact that men commit suicide at greater rates than women

- How about the fact that men are 10 times more likely to be killed on the job

- How about the fact that men are several times more likely to be physically assaulted

- How about the fact that men are more likely to die of covid

- How about the fact that 3 in 4 homeless people are men

We could go on and on like this in an all day pity party if you want?

> I don't wanna get into a whole thing

Proceeds to get into the whole thing.

Re: Ignoring boys' emotional needs fuels public health risks

#227

Post by [deleted] »

moron4hire wrote: post #130
seattle_spring wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Err… what? So people with abusive or absent dads should just forgive and love them?

That's not at all what GP said. They said "accept". For example, that could mean accepting that your father was a piece of shit and sloughing him off, out of your life. At some point, one has to stop letting the damages of the past continue to damage ones self.

[deleted]

Re: Ignoring boys' emotional needs fuels public health risks

#228

Post by yarg »

The world crushed my spirit, and erased the remnants with SSRIs.

I'm frequently told that I have no right to treat my own depression with mushrooms, with my depression and its consequences held as proof that I don't know what I'm talking about and should have no decision making autonomy.

The long term destruction of self that resulted from only three months of that is difficult to comprehend if you haven't been there.

Re: Ignoring boys' emotional needs fuels public health risks

#229

Post by klik99 »

FeistySkink wrote: post #105
klik99 wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah exactly. I let this kind of thing slide because obviously the problems facing minorities/women as groups are far worse than the problems facing men as a group, but just shifting the conversation from "I think group A of people is the problem" to "I think group B of people is the problem" is creating downstream problems. And there are very real issues facing men - suicide rates are dramatic enough to indicate tha…

There's a 5:1 male:female suicide rate in my home country. This has been going on for decades. "Temporarily" saying "men suck" doesn't help.

I really hate to be put in the position of looking like I'm minimizing this, because I made the same point in my post that suicide rates are an obvious indicator that there is something wrong here. But just want to point out that this is not a new thing, and I don't think it was caused by people saying "men suck". https://www.statista.com/statistics/187478/death-rate-from-s...

But I'm with you in the frustration that this isn't talked about.

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