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Wagner coup in Russia? Wagner declared war on the Russian army

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Re: Wagner coup in Russia? Wagner declared war on the Russian army

#71

Post by yakshaving_jgt »

WhereIsTheTruth wrote: post #52

What kind of reaction people expect from this hackernews post? Anything that goes against the dogma will get shut down? What's the veracity of this article to begin with? In the age of digital transformation, what are the chances we are reading fake news from the Ukrainian front? They attack each other? well, if they killed some russians and stole their missiles, it's easy to create confusion on the adversary camp, c…

> Few days ago reports were saying that the counter offensive was a complete failure, so who to trust? where is the truth?

Why would leading figures on the russian side lie about their own failures?

When war criminal and terrorist Igor Girkin admits that russia has no chance to win, why would he lie?

Re: Wagner coup in Russia? Wagner declared war on the Russian army

#72

Post by psychphysic »

viraptor wrote: post #48
fwungy wrote: post #15

This is absurd. It makes no sense. I'm calling psyop.

It's easy to call something a psyop, but have you got a specific reason why this would be done? It's not like that would confuse their enemy in any way, same areas need reclaiming anyway, same troops can be observed. "There's internal conflict" has been known for a while and unless there's practical impact, it doesn't seem to affect what Ukraine needs to do.

Because announcing a coup in advance is stupendously idiotic?

Ina traditional coup on MONDAY at 3 am soldiers roll into the TV stations and various government buildings. They announcing a change of government and people turn up to work Monday morning.

On Friday evening?! They must be copying the failed Turkey coup that had to move forwards because they were uncovered.

Re: Wagner coup in Russia? Wagner declared war on the Russian army

#74

Post by AnimalMuppet »

sidewndr46 wrote: post #45
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is this a serious attempt at a military coup? Wagner's command is competent. The recent border incursions show Russia is lightly fortified, possibly Moscow, too. The wild card would appear to be the FSB. Do they tend ultranationalist? Or will they be loyal to Shoigu?

My guess is that either the Ministry of Defense or Putin ordered a hit on Prigohzin. It either failed or he got wind of it. The best way to ensure his own safety at this point is a coup.

The best way to insure his death is also a coup attempt. If he succeeds, he lives (maybe). If he fails, he definitely dies.

He still may think that gives him better odds than not attempting the coup does, under current conditions...

Re: Wagner coup in Russia? Wagner declared war on the Russian army

#75

Post by reducesuffering »

The Wagner attempted coup (marching on the Russian MoD) is real, but it won't result in serious regime change, only a weakening of Russian position in Ukraine.

Prigozhin admits the reasons for invading Ukraine were bullshit from Russia: https://twitter.com/wartranslated/status/1672177488535977984

Sad to see how many people supported an invasion and slaughter of so many people because of what the Russian state says about things like NATO. Hope this is a wake up call.

If you want to follow the unfolding events, Crowdstrike founder, https://twitter.com/DAlperovitch is a qualified and educated source (predicted invasion 3 months before)

Re: Wagner coup in Russia? Wagner declared war on the Russian army

#77

Post by _V_ »

AnimalMuppet wrote: post #74
sidewndr46 wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My guess is that either the Ministry of Defense or Putin ordered a hit on Prigohzin. It either failed or he got wind of it. The best way to ensure his own safety at this point is a coup.

The best way to insure his death is also a coup attempt. If he succeeds, he lives (maybe). If he fails, he definitely dies. He still may think that gives him better odds than not attempting the coup does, under current conditions...

Well, they can't kill him twice...

Re: Wagner coup in Russia? Wagner declared war on the Russian army

#78

Post by JumpCrisscross »

yakshaving_jgt wrote: post #56
5e92cb50239222b wrote: post #5

There has been a lot of talk, but no concrete actions yet. No marches anywhere, no clashes between regular armed forces and the PMC, nothing. Some armored vehicles were put on the streets of Moscow and Rostov (which is located near the border with Ukraine), but that's about it. https://t.me/svtvnews/31224 https://t.me/svtvnews/31232

This is all unfolding literally right now. It looks like a military base in Moscow is now on fire. Edit… Also reports of fighting between Wagner and russia's national guard on the Rostov-Moscow highway. Wagner are on the move towards Moscow.

> looks like a military base in Moscow is now on fire

Source?

Re: Wagner coup in Russia? Wagner declared war on the Russian army

#79

Post by JumpCrisscross »

psychphysic wrote: post #70

Nobody announces a coup in advance. What's going on? On theory is that if he's arrested and tried in Russia he's mostly ineligible for war crime trial in the future.

> Nobody announces a coup in advance

Taking what we're seeing at face value, Prigozhin is credibly threatening to march on Moscow. He isn't announcing anything in advance, he's using public channels to sway leaders to his side.

Re: Wagner coup in Russia? Wagner declared war on the Russian army

#80

Post by kltpccc »

fwungy wrote: post #15

This is absurd. It makes no sense. I'm calling psyop.

It does look that way. Where would the "Wagner" group get new weapons supplies for a successful coup? The CIA?

I've heard multiple times that the "Wagner" group has actually been set up by the FSB and that this Prigozhin character is just a front man. Which makes sense, because how would a single individual set up such a large military organization?

It is possible that the troops have become loyal to him. They'd still have to fight the entire Russian, Chechen, Belarus, ... armies.

Why the psyop? Last time that guy made compromising videos was shortly before the fall of Bakhmut as a distraction. For all we know he is still FSB.

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