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Debris found came from missing Titan sub, says friend of passengers

bbc.com

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Re: Debris found came from missing Titan sub, says friend of passengers

#851

Post by watwut »

jb12 wrote: post #326
hawk_ wrote: post #206

I am curious how we (the society) justify the shared costs incurred in searching for people involved in such a reckless mission.

What's your definition of reckless? Were the boys stuck in the cave in Thailand reckless? Should we not have rescued them? Where is the line of who is deserving of our sympathy?

The Thai boys got stuck when rains came too soon. They were in cave where they were allowed to be and followed usual seasonal rules. They were unlucky.

The owner of subversive bragged about safety being useless, punished employee warning about safety ossies, by all reports pushed the luck again and again and his missions had track record of failures and issues.

not the same

Re: Debris found came from missing Titan sub, says friend of passengers

#852

Post by mulmen »

housemusicfan wrote: post #847
whatscooking wrote: post #839

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most old engineers I’ve worked with are terrible and many younger ones are way more talented.

This is the attitude you need to give birth to truly innovative ideas like a Bluetooth controller attached to the desktop PC that controlled his hunk of shit submarine that killed everyone on board. He proudly describes it here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ClkytJa0ghc

Does he ever explain why carbon fiber and bluetooth were improvements over working technology?

Re: Debris found came from missing Titan sub, says friend of passengers

#853

Post by amatecha »

watwut wrote: post #850
amatecha wrote: post #734

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ah, in fact, search & rescue organizations are pretty outspoken in their view that compensation is never sought from the people they rescue. It's a heavily-discussed topic and they are really steadfast in this view. Our provincial organization BC Search & Rescue Association actually published a series of videos on this subject, where they go into quite some detail about the rationale behind different arguments and wh…

When you need rescue in mountains, you pay. Full stop. If they deployed chopper, you pay full price of it too. Obviously there is an insurance for mountain climbing. But search party is not free, just that insurance pays if you have it.

Not here in BC: https://www.nsnews.com/bc-news/bcsara-launch-video-series-to...

Re: Debris found came from missing Titan sub, says friend of passengers

#854

Post by watwut »

thinkling wrote: post #266
AH4oFVbPT4f8 wrote: post #241

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does the search team/agency simply eat the cost or does the cost get passed back to the insurance for the company, the company itself, or the CEO personally since he has the means to pay. Further, everyone on board has the means to pay for a recovery, should they too share some of the cost?

I believe almost all Search and Rescue is free because S&R organizations don’t want people to hesitate to call 911 (or equivalent) because of cost concerns, and have the situation deteriorate while they delay calling. As to who should share in the cost… my take is that it’s time to discuss whether some expeditions (e.g. risky commercial tourist rides) should sign a Do Not Rescue pledge before they head out and/or sel…

Mountain climbers and tourists in Europe who need help have to pay for rescue. Unless they have insurance in which case insurance pays. (It is affordable).

Re: Debris found came from missing Titan sub, says friend of passengers

#855

Post by Dalewyn »

mulmen wrote: post #829

The most troubling thing about this to me is Stockton Rush’s cavalier attitude toward ageism [1]. In considering young college graduates as uniquely “inspirational” he set them up for a lifetime of guilt. I don’t think age or race has any place in inspirational calculus. I’m uncomfortable with how comfortably he dismisses submariner veterans as “old white guys”. Engineering is a discipline that requires experience an…

>This is a lesson the entire tech industry would do well to meditate on.

This is a lesson everyone in the business of making things would do well to meditate on.

Age and skin color, let alone sex, don't a good product make. It's whether the people involved have what it takes to make a good product.

OceanGate clearly did not have what it takes, even if they did check all the proper identity boxes.

Re: Debris found came from missing Titan sub, says friend of passengers

#856

Post by wiseowise »

finitemonkey wrote: post #824
totallywrong wrote: post #694

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Add an eccentric CEO operating against everyone's advice, some rich passangers, and it's a dream for the media.

Oh yeah. The media. How convenient. Nobody would have an interest in this if it wasn't for "the media" pushing for a story.

It is literally dream scenario for both media and people.

Re: Debris found came from missing Titan sub, says friend of passengers

#857

Post by [deleted] »

jethro_tell wrote: post #783
xwdv wrote: post #721

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If the explosion was heard Sunday night wouldn’t this mean there’s a possibility the crew was stuck for some time and knew they were likely going to die?

Not a chance. The whole problem with subs is that water weighs about 8lb per gallon. So, at 4000m you're looking at something between 4500 5500 psi. Thats a small truck worth of pressure every square inch in the hull. Once you breach the structure, think crushing a tin can in the middle, things collapse pretty fast. As do bodies. If you figure your body is 2 foot by 6 foot, the pressure would be like parking 100 full…

[deleted]

Re: Debris found came from missing Titan sub, says friend of passengers

#858

Post by mulmen »

Dalewyn wrote: post #855
mulmen wrote: post #829

The most troubling thing about this to me is Stockton Rush’s cavalier attitude toward ageism [1]. In considering young college graduates as uniquely “inspirational” he set them up for a lifetime of guilt. I don’t think age or race has any place in inspirational calculus. I’m uncomfortable with how comfortably he dismisses submariner veterans as “old white guys”. Engineering is a discipline that requires experience an…

>This is a lesson the entire tech industry would do well to meditate on. This is a lesson everyone in the business of making things would do well to meditate on. Age and skin color, let alone sex, don't a good product make. It's whether the people involved have what it takes to make a good product. OceanGate clearly did not have what it takes, even if they did check all the proper identity boxes.

Yes, this applies to everyone. But I work in the tech industry so I’m speaking to that specifically. I’m in my late 30s and already feel the effects of ageism. Based on personal anecdotes that’s less of an issue in construction or farming for example.

Re: Debris found came from missing Titan sub, says friend of passengers

#859

Post by wiseowise »

mbesto wrote: post #732
ApolloFortyNine wrote: post #615

Earlier quoted context omitted.

More than that, one report mentioned the US Navy notified the search teams that they heard an explosion Sunday night and used it to limit the search area. The US Navy has literally has experience detecting underwater explosions (see project Azorian). It's not guaranteed of course, but any loud sound near the point of contact loss seems pretty open shut. Imo, it made a more interesting story in a slow news cycle. How…

"One death is a tragedy, a million deaths a statistic." I love to bemoan about the media just like the next person, but sadly this is just human nature.

There’s nothing sad about it.

Re: Debris found came from missing Titan sub, says friend of passengers

#860

Post by can16358p »

housemusicfan wrote: post #847
whatscooking wrote: post #839

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most old engineers I’ve worked with are terrible and many younger ones are way more talented.

This is the attitude you need to give birth to truly innovative ideas like a Bluetooth controller attached to the desktop PC that controlled his hunk of shit submarine that killed everyone on board. He proudly describes it here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ClkytJa0ghc

I do agree with you, though I think BT game controller wasn't a bad idea for two reasons:

- Battle-tested and easily replaceable, compared to a custom one.

- Cables have a snapping risk in that limited physical space, Bluetooth solves it and there's no risk of EMI 4km underwater anyway.

The carbonfiber structure... that's another story. Terrible.

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