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Debris found came from missing Titan sub, says friend of passengers

bbc.com

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Re: Debris found came from missing Titan sub, says friend of passengers

#691

Post by mikeyouse »

mahogany wrote: post #656
thinkling wrote: post #266

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I believe almost all Search and Rescue is free because S&R organizations don’t want people to hesitate to call 911 (or equivalent) because of cost concerns, and have the situation deteriorate while they delay calling. As to who should share in the cost… my take is that it’s time to discuss whether some expeditions (e.g. risky commercial tourist rides) should sign a Do Not Rescue pledge before they head out and/or sel…

There has been at least one case in the White Mountains where the leader of a search and rescue team recommended charging the person they rescued, because that person acted with negligence and put the lives of the search and rescue team in unnecessary danger. I'm sure this is rare though.

There are some places where that outcome is explicitly listed on the warning signs. Less dramatically, places like Sleeping Bear Dunes list the cost for a rescue at the top to warn people that otherwise might make bad decisions;

https://npca.s3.amazonaws.com/images/11275/93882d38-5217-4aa...

https://preview.redd.it/mx98brhdszg71.jpg?width=960&crop=sma...

Re: Debris found came from missing Titan sub, says friend of passengers

#692

Post by nameless912 »

bg46z wrote: post #142
anigbrowl wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

'Telemetry? who needs it' - Oceangate, probably

Telemetry doesn’t work very well under water. There’s work to be done on telemetry that is capable underwater, but it seems a long ways off.

Not to be crass, but wouldn't any low bandwidth sound-based protocol be easy to rig up for underwater? Obviously there's a bit of adaptation required, but it shouldn't be _that_ hard to set up a 28.8k modem with a directional speaker and microphone rigged up to point vaguely toward each other (i.e. at the surface pointing down and on the sub pointing up). Hell, even automated Morse code sending literal text messages at 3 sps is better than nothing.

Re: Debris found came from missing Titan sub, says friend of passengers

#693

Post by jongjong »

mcguire wrote: post #209
seattle_anon wrote: post #166

Stockton Rush (OceanGate's CEO) was known in the Seattle tech community [0] My understanding (very much not first hand) is that he was seen as an expert in the specific engineering disciplines necessary to safely build and operate deep sea submersibles like Titan. He was also apparently a father to members of the Seattle tech community, who are no doubt grieving at the moment. Please remember that, for some members o…

He's also on record as saying things like, " It's obscenely safe because they have all these regulations. But it also hasn't innovated or grown — because they have all these regulations. " ( https://www.insider.com/titan-submarine-ceo-complained-about... )

Reminds me of a joke I heard on my first night time fishing trip on a boat.

Boat owner: "This boat has been certified as insubmersible"

Guest 1: "Certified until what depth?"

Guest 2: "...All the way to the seafloor"

Re: Debris found came from missing Titan sub, says friend of passengers

#694

Post by totallywrong »

brendamn wrote: post #686
ApolloFortyNine wrote: post #615

Earlier quoted context omitted.

More than that, one report mentioned the US Navy notified the search teams that they heard an explosion Sunday night and used it to limit the search area. The US Navy has literally has experience detecting underwater explosions (see project Azorian). It's not guaranteed of course, but any loud sound near the point of contact loss seems pretty open shut. Imo, it made a more interesting story in a slow news cycle. How…

> How many people died in car accidents the last few days? Car accidents (not involving anyone of note) sadly aren’t novel or newsworthy anymore. A submarine, with people potentially trapped onboard, with limited oxygen, as rescue teams race to the dive site, unfolding in real-time, isn’t exactly something that happens that often.

Add an eccentric CEO operating against everyone's advice, some rich passangers, and it's a dream for the media.

Re: Debris found came from missing Titan sub, says friend of passengers

#695

Post by Arn_Thor »

SirMaster wrote: post #171

What I don't understand is, if it imploded, why didn't the boat hear the implosion? Surely that would be really loud. Louder than the 15 min audio ping that the boat is normally listening for.

Turns out the Navy heard it, based on a WSJ article. They started actively listening when notified that contact was lost, and shortly after they picked up what sounded like an implosion or explosion.

Re: Debris found came from missing Titan sub, says friend of passengers

#696

Post by xvector »

js2 wrote: post #348

> OceanGate’s submersibles are the only known vessels to use real-time (RTM) hull health monitoring. With this RTM system, we can determine if the hull is compromised well before situations become life-threatening, and safely return to the surface. This innovative safety system is not currently covered by any classing agency. Given that Stockton Rush risked and lost his own life, he must have believed these words. He…

In an interview with James Cameron, he mentions[1] that he and other submersible industry experts believe that the system worked and that they did in fact have warning, as they had dropped the weights (which were found far away from the debris field) and were attempting to resurface before the implosion:

[1]: "This Oceangate sub had sensors on the inside of the hull to give them a warning when it was starting to crack [...] they probably had warning that their hull was starting to delaminate. [...] It's our belief - as we understand from inside the community - that they had dropped their ascent weights and they were coming up trying to manage an emergency." https://youtu.be/rThZLhNF_xg?t=472

Re: Debris found came from missing Titan sub, says friend of passengers

#697

Post by barbs »

krisoft wrote: post #599
methodical wrote: post #315

Besides the "what about this other accident with 500 victims!!!", "these people are dumb", and the "look how they ignored safety!" comments, I can't help but be amazed at how events like this make people crawl out of the woodworks spouting complete falsities as if they're facts. I've seen so many boneheaded comments over the last few days that I don't even know how to list all of them out, from people saying that Tit…

> to people speculating that the passengers may have drowned In layman terms “drowned” simply means that you died under water. It is not a sophisticated statement about the manner of anyone’s passing. People in the know understand that on a submarine you can die of hypoxia (if they mismanage the oxygen), or die of hypothermia (if they get stuck on the bottom with an intact pressure vessel, but no electricity) or die…

I really don't think that's true at all. I consider drowning to be inhaling water and being unable to breathe, not just any death that happens underwater, and I imagine most people would think the same.

Re: Debris found came from missing Titan sub, says friend of passengers

#698

Post by housemusicfan »

seattle_anon wrote: post #166

Stockton Rush (OceanGate's CEO) was known in the Seattle tech community [0] My understanding (very much not first hand) is that he was seen as an expert in the specific engineering disciplines necessary to safely build and operate deep sea submersibles like Titan. He was also apparently a father to members of the Seattle tech community, who are no doubt grieving at the moment. Please remember that, for some members o…

I'm going to be very blunt here. I've seen enough interview footage in the last 48 hours to know that this guy comes off as the Elizabeth Holmes of ocean exploration. Five people are now dead (including himself) because he convinced them to climb into his Lyle Lanley water contraption and pay him a quarter of a million $ each to do so. Anyone that has sat through 15 minutes of year one engineering ethics would know what he was doing was extremely reckless and the obvious consequences prevailed. I have zero empathy for this guy.

Re: Debris found came from missing Titan sub, says friend of passengers

#699

Post by cdolan »

totallywrong wrote: post #694
brendamn wrote: post #686

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> How many people died in car accidents the last few days? Car accidents (not involving anyone of note) sadly aren’t novel or newsworthy anymore. A submarine, with people potentially trapped onboard, with limited oxygen, as rescue teams race to the dive site, unfolding in real-time, isn’t exactly something that happens that often.

Add an eccentric CEO operating against everyone's advice, some rich passangers, and it's a dream for the media.

[flagged]

Re: Debris found came from missing Titan sub, says friend of passengers

#700

Post by cdolan »

vsareto wrote: post #271
hawk_ wrote: post #206

I am curious how we (the society) justify the shared costs incurred in searching for people involved in such a reckless mission.

Real-world training for the newbies, exercise for the journeymen, and teaching moments for the experts. That alone is worth my tax dollars for keeping a robust search and rescue force. At least some of the CEO's estate should go to paying for it, but pay out to victims' families first.

Agree with the sentiment, but 3+ of the victims had far more net worth than the CEO

The 5th passenger from the French, maybe not

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