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Debris Field Confirmed as Titan

independent.co.uk

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Re: Debris Field Confirmed as Titan

#161

Post by PepperdineG »

ChuckNorris89 wrote: post #42
giarc wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Somewhere a redditor did the math and I believe it would have taken 24ms for the glass to break and the water to rush in. Instant death if it was indeed the glass.

Just how instant is that death? Do you die from quickly drowning in the water or is the water pressure enough to also crush your skull quick enough to make sure you die without having the chance to feel anything? Guillotined people can still be alive and feel about 30 second safter their head has been removed from their body.

>Just how instant is that death?

Similar to the Arbogast in The Expanse, but even greater disassembly.

Re: Debris Field Confirmed as Titan

#162

Post by salawat »

elliekelly wrote: post #53
yabones wrote: post #3

What can we learn from this? Don't go in pressure vessels; don't go in confined spaces.

I think it’s more along the lines of “learn from the experiences of others”. It’s my understanding that there are quite a lot of very smart people who have spent decades figuring out how to build these things relatively safely. This company decided to ignore the existing knowledge base entirely because what the industry had learned was expensive and inconvenient for a fledgling tourist company. What’s that analogy ab…

Chesterton's Fence.

Re: Debris Field Confirmed as Titan

#163

Post by PepperdineG »

vkou wrote: post #26
powderpig wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are a number of reasons why it might have failed, fatigue, deviation from process/protocol but pressure vessels are well understood and not the problem here.

Are carbon-fiber pressure vessels well understood? I get that there's a lot of armchair quarterbacking from internet material experts here, but this does seem to be an outlier with this particular submarine.

The issue seems to be hull integrity, namely being able to inspect the hull before it's failing in order to detect issues without risking anyone's life. The only thing they could do with a carbon fiber hill is use an acoustic hull monitoring that only told you that the hull was in the process of failing - so potentially getting no real warning at all. It does you no good finding out your hull is going to implode in 10 seconds when it will take you an hour to get to safety. This is what the ex-OG employee got fired over because he made a stink about how the carbon fiber hull was unsafe for this reason.

Re: Debris Field Confirmed as Titan

#165

Post by vagrantJin »

elromulous wrote: post #106
logicalmonster wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The late CEO of OceanGate told David Pogue last fall, “at some point, safety is just pure waste.” In and of itself, what is actually incorrect about that statement? I think a lot of normal people are going to smugly harp on that statement, but in and of itself it seems perfectly reasonable to believe that there's a diminishing return to safety measures for anything at some point. The issue with this sub thing seems…

It's waste the same way insurance* is waste. The difference between something certified and something not is exactly this instance, when the uncertified thing fails unexpectedly. The rest of the time, the difference is a "waste". Insurance is a waste until the accident happens and you get value from insurance. *the general concept insurance, not the disaster that is US health insurance.

> Insurance is a waste until the accident happens and you get value from insurance.

I can't quite put my finger on it but there is something dubious about "insurance" or at least as it currently exists.

Re: Debris Field Confirmed as Titan

#166

Post by meepmorp »

2-718-281-828 wrote: post #81
Buttons840 wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In that scenario, as long as they could keep CO2 levels down, running out of oxygen isn't so bad (ignoring the other troubles). The human body can't detect a lack of oxygen, you just get tired and light headed and pass out.

i understand what you are basing your statement on (a cleaner version would be asphyxiation by breathing an inert gas) but you are very wrong. as a matter of fact people with an impaired amygdala who can't experience fear will panic when forced to breathe co2. also your breathing will get very shallow and cause co2 to accumulate triggering those very receptors you argue will stay silent. https://www.nature.com/articl…

What the does that have to do with what OP said?

OP, correctly, pointed out that we don't detect the lack of O2, we detect a buildup of CO2 (because it causes respiratory acidosis). If the CO2 is removed, there's nothing to cause the panic response, the situation itself notwithstanding.

It's still nea that it works with an impaired amygdala, though.

Re: Debris Field Confirmed as Titan

#167

Post by meepmorp »

BillWyeRex wrote: post #146
EA-3167 wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What can we learn? Just because the CEO is on the firing line with you, doesn't make him right, just overly confident. DO hire "50 year old" people with experience, not just kids from university. Don't build your pressure vessel out of materials which are hard to monitor for wear and fatigue. Listen to your experienced employees when they tell you that you've built a death-trap. If you have $250,000 to spend on a sho…

[flagged]

> It may well be that this is another diversity casualty.

This take seems a lot like you looking for something to be offended by.

Re: Debris Field Confirmed as Titan

#169

Post by erik_seaberg »

olyjohn wrote: post #92
peepeepoopoo11 wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Do you think that it was presented to them as unsafe?

A previous passenger (a reporter) said the disclaimer mentioned “death” three times on the front page. I think they were as informed as anyone could be.

Re: Debris Field Confirmed as Titan

#170

Post by ocbyc »

kevin_thibedeau wrote: post #45
giarc wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Somewhere a redditor did the math and I believe it would have taken 24ms for the glass to break and the water to rush in. Instant death if it was indeed the glass.

The porthole windows on deep submersibles are conical plugs. They don't break. Either a seal leaked or the carbon fiber failed.

Probably was the porthole. It looks like the view port was rated for 1,300 meters. (They were descending to 4,000 meters) An engineer even warned them of the issue, and was fired. I suppose they didn't want to spend the money to develop an adequate one.
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