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Debris found came from missing Titan sub, says friend of passengers

bbc.com

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Re: Debris found came from missing Titan sub, says friend of passengers

#621

Post by flaminHotSpeedo »

themoonisachees wrote: post #594
krisoft wrote: post #368

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> They do, but not the depths we're talking about We really don’t know what depth the noise was comming from. That being said it is vanishingly unlikely that an unrelated submarine trying to remain stealthy would be banging on their hull every half an hour.

Very true, it is a known factoid that submarines sometimes bump into each other because they can't tell that another sub is there. Doing so much noise as to be spotted from aircraft is crazy.

Strictly speaking I think it was buoys dropped from aircraft, it's not a listening device on the aircraft itself

Re: Debris found came from missing Titan sub, says friend of passengers

#622

Post by pests »

helios_invictus wrote: post #285
btgeekboy wrote: post #220

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Part of me has been wondering if the noises being heard might be an unexpected discovery of a military (Russian, Chinese, US) submarine operating in the general area. Don’t they submerge for long periods of time without comms?

They do, but not the depths we're talking about (12,500 feet) https://navalpost.com/how-deep-can-a-submarine-dive/ The depth limits of the most known nuclear powered submarines’ depth limits, as follows; Typhoon-class: Test depth 900 m (3,000 ft) Astute-class: Over 300 m (984 ft 3 in) Akula-class: 480 m (1,570 ft) test depth for Akula I and Akula I Improved, 520 m (1,710 ft) for Akula II and III, 600 m (2,000 ft) max…

Wow these numbers blow my mind. I imagined much deeper but some of these seem literally just below the surface.

Re: Debris found came from missing Titan sub, says friend of passengers

#623

Post by jprd »

jprd wrote: post #24
fuzzbazz wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Would the implosion have been loud enough? I mean the thing was a tiny 7x3m cylinder located 700Km from the nearest coast...

I've never been in the military, not a sub-mariner, 1000% SOSUS could detect that. SOSUS could detect that in the 1970s, if not earlier.

https://archive.is/pSpem

Re: Debris found came from missing Titan sub, says friend of passengers

#624

Post by agumonkey »

bambax wrote: post #471
Hamuko wrote: post #231

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He seemed especially proud about combining titanium and carbon fibre against the advice of others, which seems to now have been in a pretty active role in the demise of the Titan. > "I'd like to be remembered as an innovator. I think it was General MacArthur who said "you're remembered for the rules you break." And I've broken some rules to make this. I think I've broken them with logic and good engineering behind me…

James Cameron is extremely critical of the design of the sub, and of Rush's attitude [0]. He says that carbon fiber was a very poor choice and that it had been known for a very long time, and that "deep submerged diving is a mature art". If you think you're going to reinvent the wheel and bypass regulatory bodies and ignore subject experts, and move fast and break things, you're delusional. Any baby can break things;…

How costly was Cameron venture ? it seems so strange to see a crew die in conditions that were already mastered, with near no added benefits.

Re: Debris found came from missing Titan sub, says friend of passengers

#625

Post by carbine »

troppl wrote: post #429
hawk_ wrote: post #206

I am curious how we (the society) justify the shared costs incurred in searching for people involved in such a reckless mission.

Is this for sure all paid with tax money? Here in the alps, if you have an injury hiking and need a helicopter ride then you are required to pay for the ride (normally a few thousand euros). I assume it's the same if you're lost. And I would assume it's the same on high sea...

yes, same in Canada afaik. seems quite plausible to me that some of these bills will be sent to OceanGate, we don't know. ofc their ability to pay is another question.

Re: Debris found came from missing Titan sub, says friend of passengers

#626

Post by ApolloFortyNine »

krisoft wrote: post #461
sebzim4500 wrote: post #275

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think there is value in living in the kind of society where you know that if you are lost at sea there will be arguably irrational levels of resources thrown into trying to find you. And not just the rich either, no matter what Twitter would have you believe.

> I think there is value in living in the kind of society where you know that if you are lost at sea there will be arguably irrational levels of resources thrown into trying to find you I wouldn’t know, because i live in the kind of society where if you are lost at sea and you call for help but the call handler assumes that you have the wrong kind of passport they just tell you to call some other country and then hun…

Pretty disingenuous when those 'refugees' were simply planning on illegally entering the UK, and everyone involved knew it.

>The refugee said it was his fourth attempt to cross the Channel. During the previous three attempts French police had caught them on the beach and punctured their dinghies with knives.

Honestly didn't realize though refugees thought the benefits in the UK were better than France's.

Re: Debris found came from missing Titan sub, says friend of passengers

#627

Post by climb_stealth »

stef25 wrote: post #379
lm28469 wrote: post #274

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> And of course the average person here is probably a lot closer to taking a holiday trip in a submersible than to taking a refugee boat across the Mediterranean. My opinion is the complete opposite, I think it has more coverage because it's a feel good event for 90% of the world who absolutely despise rich fucks in that specific part of the dumb X rich venn diagram I haven't seen a single post about how sad the sub…

It's not so much stupidity as knowingly embarking on a dangerous adventure for the purpose of fun, basically. Someone who took the trip before said they had to sign a waver which mentioned death multiple times. It's like climbing Everest, walking to the north pole, commercial space flights, base jumping etc. The med disaster was people embarking on a dangerous "adventure" out of what they perceived as being a necessi…

> Someone who took the trip before said they had to sign a waver which mentioned death multiple times.

Just nitpicking here but this is quite normal. Any somewhat physically involved commercially offered activity has waivers to sign that mention potential death and that absolve the business from responsibility. Gyms for example do this.

Re: Debris found came from missing Titan sub, says friend of passengers

#628

Post by hef19898 »

Turskarama wrote: post #598
jjulius wrote: post #546

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>... he was seen as an expert in the specific engineering disciplines necessary to safely build and operate deep sea submersibles like Titan. And yet he called safety "pure waste"... https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2023-06-21/titanic-t...

The thing about the Seattle tech community is that they have no idea about building submarines, so who they think is an expert on building submarines is irrelevant. People really need to remember that tech bros aren't really smarter than most people, they're usually just more willing to take risks.

Considering the risk some typical tech bros take, they don't seem to be that intelligent to be begin with...

Re: Debris found came from missing Titan sub, says friend of passengers

#629

Post by pests »

dvt wrote: post #431
deanc wrote: post #305

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can someone walk me through what would have happened, physically, to a human body in the moment this happened. I’m curious. Similar to wondering what happens to people in space.

Gas-filled cavities in the body instantly compress. So this means that your lungs, stomach, etc. instantly get crushed, rupturing in the process. Depending on circumference, depth, etc., the hull itself moves at speeds of ~1000+ mph towards itself, crushing everything inside in less than 100 milliseconds. Someone linked a great safety video of what happens under a pressure column (not gore)[1]. Though as some people…

> turning all organic matter to ash

Is this actually true? I see it being repeated everywhere but there is a lot of mass in a human body. Can 100 milliseconds of "ignition" (as you put it) really burn off all of that?

Re: Debris found came from missing Titan sub, says friend of passengers

#630

Post by flaminHotSpeedo »

thinkling wrote: post #266
AH4oFVbPT4f8 wrote: post #241

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does the search team/agency simply eat the cost or does the cost get passed back to the insurance for the company, the company itself, or the CEO personally since he has the means to pay. Further, everyone on board has the means to pay for a recovery, should they too share some of the cost?

I believe almost all Search and Rescue is free because S&R organizations don’t want people to hesitate to call 911 (or equivalent) because of cost concerns, and have the situation deteriorate while they delay calling. As to who should share in the cost… my take is that it’s time to discuss whether some expeditions (e.g. risky commercial tourist rides) should sign a Do Not Rescue pledge before they head out and/or sel…

From anecdotal evidence, the few search and rescue units I've been involved with (all non-technical volunteer units) have been overwhelming against charging subjects, at least as a general rule.

But the considerations for something like this are pretty much entirely different, risk to non-technical rescuers is pretty minimal and the costs are just gas and the time spent on what is essentially just an unplanned hike with some extra gear.

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